Editing Talk:2519: Sloped Border
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Wouldn't sloped borders also have interesting consequences underground when mining, building tunnels etc. ? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.239|162.158.88.239]] 08:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC) | Wouldn't sloped borders also have interesting consequences underground when mining, building tunnels etc. ? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.88.239|162.158.88.239]] 08:39, 23 September 2021 (UTC) | ||
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I introduced into the explanation a hint of the more precise problem with airborne geometry upon spherical (or, possibly, geodesic) coordinates. The shallower the angle, the more possible that the 'curves with the ground' altitude calculation is to actually wrap itself all the way round the Earth before (presumably), whatever altitude limit there is to make space the same upper edge as International Waters are to horizontal edges. Taking the Liechtenstein case, as above, you could easily enclose them in a 'pyramidal' (or wedged, if not applied from all around them) air-claim by angling over them - ''or'' greatly increase their air-claim over neighbours if the angle is away. With inverse issues for the Mineral Rights issue. You need to agree in advance what happens when angled boundaries hit perpendicular ones, ''and'' whether the 'rhumbs' projected from the border mash together when equidistant points on a crinkly border project their own air-distance line. ''And'' if it is from an agreed surface level datum or local ground level, with the complications that arise from both cases. (Yeah, I originally thought there were about four different bones of contention that need to be ironed out in the codicil on curvature, but I now think there's about six of them needing strict definition, not counting the compound cases which further may need specifying in advance or forever requirev adhoc arbitration.) And none of this even takes account of Relativity and curved ''space'' frame of reference that might very subtly shift whatever reference you just agreed upon, if you let it go high enough. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.165|172.70.34.165]] 12:05, 23 September 2021 (UTC) | I introduced into the explanation a hint of the more precise problem with airborne geometry upon spherical (or, possibly, geodesic) coordinates. The shallower the angle, the more possible that the 'curves with the ground' altitude calculation is to actually wrap itself all the way round the Earth before (presumably), whatever altitude limit there is to make space the same upper edge as International Waters are to horizontal edges. Taking the Liechtenstein case, as above, you could easily enclose them in a 'pyramidal' (or wedged, if not applied from all around them) air-claim by angling over them - ''or'' greatly increase their air-claim over neighbours if the angle is away. With inverse issues for the Mineral Rights issue. You need to agree in advance what happens when angled boundaries hit perpendicular ones, ''and'' whether the 'rhumbs' projected from the border mash together when equidistant points on a crinkly border project their own air-distance line. ''And'' if it is from an agreed surface level datum or local ground level, with the complications that arise from both cases. (Yeah, I originally thought there were about four different bones of contention that need to be ironed out in the codicil on curvature, but I now think there's about six of them needing strict definition, not counting the compound cases which further may need specifying in advance or forever requirev adhoc arbitration.) And none of this even takes account of Relativity and curved ''space'' frame of reference that might very subtly shift whatever reference you just agreed upon, if you let it go high enough. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.34.165|172.70.34.165]] 12:05, 23 September 2021 (UTC) | ||
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:As to 'advantage' (except for the territory sloped away from), I don't think there really is one. At best, it makes true geofencing of drones a bit more complicated than saying "don't cross this line; don't go above/below these altitudes" for some doubtless functional reason. For the people in the RHS 'illustrative' sub-image, it seems to have no practical effect other than to identify limbs/other extremities as cross-border in rather more unusual slices of the body than a normal border-straddler would expect. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.11|162.158.159.11]] 22:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC) | :As to 'advantage' (except for the territory sloped away from), I don't think there really is one. At best, it makes true geofencing of drones a bit more complicated than saying "don't cross this line; don't go above/below these altitudes" for some doubtless functional reason. For the people in the RHS 'illustrative' sub-image, it seems to have no practical effect other than to identify limbs/other extremities as cross-border in rather more unusual slices of the body than a normal border-straddler would expect. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.11|162.158.159.11]] 22:33, 23 September 2021 (UTC) | ||
Hmm, defining the calculation of the slope is tricky indeed. The commenter above suggests that the slope is relative to "vertical". However, the interpretation of "ground level" could deal with "level" meaning the ground slope, not the ground height. In other words, consider the slope on the side of a mountain. Let's suppose that in a local area, with a section of border running north/south, the ground is sloped 30 degrees to the east. Does that mean the 74 degree border is 104 degrees to the east at that point? The ground changing shape (whether due to natural erosion or bulldozers) could change the borders significantly.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.220|108.162.246.220]] 00:01, 24 September 2021 (UTC) | Hmm, defining the calculation of the slope is tricky indeed. The commenter above suggests that the slope is relative to "vertical". However, the interpretation of "ground level" could deal with "level" meaning the ground slope, not the ground height. In other words, consider the slope on the side of a mountain. Let's suppose that in a local area, with a section of border running north/south, the ground is sloped 30 degrees to the east. Does that mean the 74 degree border is 104 degrees to the east at that point? The ground changing shape (whether due to natural erosion or bulldozers) could change the borders significantly.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.220|108.162.246.220]] 00:01, 24 September 2021 (UTC) | ||
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