Editing Talk:2648: Chemicals
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:There are also a lot of make-your-own-film-developer nerds, which is a little bit closer in that you're using household items to try to recreate the reactions created by otherwise expensive chemicals. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 22:37, 20 July 2022 (UTC) | :There are also a lot of make-your-own-film-developer nerds, which is a little bit closer in that you're using household items to try to recreate the reactions created by otherwise expensive chemicals. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.130.217|172.70.130.217]] 22:37, 20 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
::I never even heard of those. I used to live in a household where there was darkroom equipment, even, so know a little of the process of doing that (more so than academic chemistry lessons) but I'd shy away from trying to substitute like that. If it's a thing, then might be worth linking (when and by who it can be). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.155|172.70.162.155]] 10:33, 21 July 2022 (UTC) | ::I never even heard of those. I used to live in a household where there was darkroom equipment, even, so know a little of the process of doing that (more so than academic chemistry lessons) but I'd shy away from trying to substitute like that. If it's a thing, then might be worth linking (when and by who it can be). [[Special:Contributions/172.70.162.155|172.70.162.155]] 10:33, 21 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
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: Equally could be parodying fallacious thinking in corporate procurement that says 'if we build system x in-house, we won't have have to pay some supplier loads of money to do it', which ignores that the supplier is likely leveraging economies of scale by developing for multiple clients, and ignores the costs of supporting and maintaining the system. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.135|172.70.85.135]] 12:14, 21 July 2022 (UTC) | : Equally could be parodying fallacious thinking in corporate procurement that says 'if we build system x in-house, we won't have have to pay some supplier loads of money to do it', which ignores that the supplier is likely leveraging economies of scale by developing for multiple clients, and ignores the costs of supporting and maintaining the system. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.135|172.70.85.135]] 12:14, 21 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
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I removed "Similar to the makerspace movement, community chemical labs have been cropping up, where people work together to perform chemical synthesis and other chemistry acts by sharing community resources," because it doesn't seem to be true; see [https://peer.asee.org/the-design-and-impact-of-a-combined-makerspace-wet-lab-and-instructional-design-studio-for-chemical-engineering-curriculum.pdf]. Maybe someone can think of something similar but less misleading from that paper? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 11:52, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | I removed "Similar to the makerspace movement, community chemical labs have been cropping up, where people work together to perform chemical synthesis and other chemistry acts by sharing community resources," because it doesn't seem to be true; see [https://peer.asee.org/the-design-and-impact-of-a-combined-makerspace-wet-lab-and-instructional-design-studio-for-chemical-engineering-curriculum.pdf]. Maybe someone can think of something similar but less misleading from that paper? [[Special:Contributions/172.69.33.123|172.69.33.123]] 11:52, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
: I actually was a very fringe part of a group synthesizing coronavirus tests at a community lab, and have elesewhere participated in groups with community labs. I have some neurological issues and have not yet found a citation or reviewed your reference, but the statement is indeed very true. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.135|172.70.110.135]] 12:04, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | : I actually was a very fringe part of a group synthesizing coronavirus tests at a community lab, and have elesewhere participated in groups with community labs. I have some neurological issues and have not yet found a citation or reviewed your reference, but the statement is indeed very true. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.135|172.70.110.135]] 12:04, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
− | :: There is a reason that we as a society house exploratory chemistry labs inside high schools, colleges and universities, but we allow co-ops and makerspaces to host mechanical and manufacturing tools. It's mostly the greater extent of safety equipment, protocols, supervision, and training compared to hand tools and shop equipment, but also the huge regulatory burden of storing thousands of precursor chemicals, many hundreds of which are likely to be deadly poisons, explosive, radioactive, drugs of abuse, potent carcinogens and teratogens, or just absurdly expensive. Have a look at [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIHxPc7EpP8 this video] to get an idea of what a | + | :: There is a reason that we as a society house exploratory chemistry labs inside high schools, colleges and universities, but we allow co-ops and makerspaces to host mechanical and manufacturing tools. It's mostly the greater extent of safety equipment, protocols, supervision, and training compared to hand tools and shop equipment, but also the huge regulatory burden of storing thousands of precursor chemicals, many hundreds of which are likely to be deadly poisons, explosive, radioactive, drugs of abuse, potent carcinogens and teratogens, or just absurdly expensive. Have a look at [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIHxPc7EpP8 this video] to get an idea of what a real chem lab is like. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.90|172.70.211.90]] 15:25, 22 July 2022 (UTC) |
: From your link: "In this work I describe the design and impacts of a makerspace at the University of Utah, created specifically for chemical engineering curriculum." -- is your concern the phrasing around "cropping up", that the statement implies more labs here than your experience is that there actually are? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.223|172.70.114.223]] 12:10, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | : From your link: "In this work I describe the design and impacts of a makerspace at the University of Utah, created specifically for chemical engineering curriculum." -- is your concern the phrasing around "cropping up", that the statement implies more labs here than your experience is that there actually are? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.114.223|172.70.114.223]] 12:10, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
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: These are the guys I spent time near during the coronavirus outbreak. I don't know where their website is now; I've lost the chats. But given that they were doing it in 2015, and your citation against the sentence actually backs it up, I'm planning to bring the sentence back. https://web.archive.org/web/20150920075545/http://www.indielab.co/resources [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.97|162.158.62.97]] 12:34, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | : These are the guys I spent time near during the coronavirus outbreak. I don't know where their website is now; I've lost the chats. But given that they were doing it in 2015, and your citation against the sentence actually backs it up, I'm planning to bring the sentence back. https://web.archive.org/web/20150920075545/http://www.indielab.co/resources [[Special:Contributions/162.158.62.97|162.158.62.97]] 12:34, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
:: It looks like they closed their public access to the chem lab in 2018 when they became Librecycle. I'm skeptical that a makerspace-style chem lab is insurable in the US, although with a strict training and certification regime, anything is possible. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 14:28, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | :: It looks like they closed their public access to the chem lab in 2018 when they became Librecycle. I'm skeptical that a makerspace-style chem lab is insurable in the US, although with a strict training and certification regime, anything is possible. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.211.134|172.70.211.134]] 14:28, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | ||
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− | + | I agree with the edit summary/history suggesting the discussion of Big Pharma is off-topic, but not terribly so. I follow [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:In_praise_of_1RR 1RR] here in such borderline cases. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.214.185|172.70.214.185]] 14:39, 22 July 2022 (UTC) | |
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