Difference between revisions of "explain xkcd:Community portal/Proposals"

Explain xkcd: It's 'cause you're dumb.
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(Just add 'explain' before the 'xkcd.com': In a way, that's the plan, see "Moving the wiki" and shortURL)
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<noinclude>{{Community portal}}</noinclude>
I'll admit I was being kind of an ass with this one.  Even after making this comic I releizad that it was only one woman who laughed at me, and I was making some unfair generalizations.  I don't know why I didn't just say so in the above comments.  Maybe I was afraid of muddying the narrativeMaybe it was one in the morning, and I was too tired to change anythingMaybe I just wanted to admit that sometimes I think this way, even though it's not right.Anyway, someone called me out on this, and they were right, so I'm apologizing.
== Tagline ==
I haven't created [[MediaWiki:Tagline]] yet, but we need to think about what to put there.  That's the familiar "From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia." over at Wikipedia - it appears right under the title of each page.  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 10:39, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
<br><small>Moved from [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]] --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:09, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
:I think it's pretty obvious we should keep the "It's cause you're dumb." :) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 13:20, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
:: Well, since there haven't been any objections, I went ahead and added it: [[Mediawiki:Tagline]]. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 18:46, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
== Separate discussion page(s) ==
I think we should create a separate Discuss the wiki page, so that each discussion can go under its own header. I'd suggest setting up a todo list where people can help out. I'd start with a suggestion:
: We should be using [[mw:Manual:Short URL|cleaner urls]]. Maybe [http://shorturls.redwerks.org/ this tool] can help setting that up. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:46, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:: Whatever we do decide, I've created <nowiki>{{xkcd}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{explain}}</nowiki> templates to create links to the xkcd site and other explanations here on this site; that should factor at least those sites (nice central administration) as well as helping us categorize pages that use them.  Was thinking of also <nowiki>{{wiki}}</nowiki> for the same benefit, even if there's already a prefix built into mediawiki... the only drawback is the bias toward the en side...  [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 10:31, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:::I'm liking the idea of creating a Discuss the wiki page - I'll start one if someone doesn't/hasn't beat me to it and add it to the sidebar.  I'd asked for better URLs at [[User talk:Jeff#Robots.txt]], though I didn't know what they were called. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 17:17, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::I also like the idea of the {{tl|xkcd}} tags.  On a related note, I've [[Special:Import|imported]] {{tl|tl}}.  :-)  <s> I also realize we don't have a secure server here, but I'd support the best practice of beginning URLs with protocol-relative links ( // instead of http:// or https:// ) anyway, especially since the xkcd website ''itself'' appears to be https-compatible.</s><small>Nevermind, it doesn't seem to be.  So I guess it doesn't matter.</small>  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 22:40, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::: Maybe we can create a subpage of the community portal for the wiki discussion. What do you think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:32, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::: Also one for editing coordination (see [[User:SurturZ/sandbox]] for instance), another for mediawiki assistance (requests to admins perhaps on the same page, or on a separate one). Any other ideas? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:41, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]], may need to be broken out into new headers or sub-headers. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:12, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
Great job on creating the subpages! I think the subpages can be made more intuitive for newcomers, though. Here are my subbestions:
* merge "/Design" and "/Proposals" into '''"/Discuss the wiki"''' or "/Improve the wiki" or something to that effect.
* rename "/Technical" into '''"/Tecnical assistance"''' so it is clear that it should be used for one-off issues rather than coordination of wiki-wide changes (which should go in the section above)
* merge the "/Administrator's noticeboard" above? That would reinforce that adminship is nothing but a set of technical tools to assist the wiki
* New '''"/Editing coordination"''' subpage for organizing what to do, maintenance, keeping a TODO list for newcomers to tackle, etc -- essentially like WikiProjects work at Wikipedia.
--[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 04:35, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:As I see this, it would involve mostly just renaming pages.  I don't particularly care what the names are, so I won't comment on that.
:*I'd like to keep /Administrator's noticeboard for the time being.  The primary advantage of this is that administrators can watchlist this and things which need the tools are less likely to get lost in discussion.  It can always be deprecated afterwards if it isn't being used enough.
:*I'd sort of seen /Design as doing what you're proposing for /Editing coordination, though I didn't explain it as well.
:--''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 18:43, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:: Ok, I get what you mean with the Admin page. I don't think this wiki is going to be that busy to warrant a separate page, though. But for now, let's at least simplify the name? "Admin requests", for instance :)
:: And yeah, Design isn't really a good name for content-related coordination. What I'm suggesting here is to have one page for meta (wiki-related) discussion, and another for content-related discussion. Does that make sense? And what name do you think would be good for the former rather than the current, too generic imo, "Proposals"? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:20, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:::"Discuss the wiki" sounds good to me, as does "Admin requests." Or whatever, I guess.  ;-)  I may not be online much for the next few days (or much this evening), so go ahead and change it how you think it should be, I guess.  Having stable discussion pages sooner than later would be good.  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 01:48, 6 August 2012 (EDT)
:::: Ok I changed the admin page name, and merged "design" and "proposals", but for now I left it named "Proposals". I'm not quite confident about the clarity of "Discuss the wiki"... I'll wait until others comment here. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 14:06, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
::::: I'm not seeing any further discussion and it's been a few days since the move, so I'm clearing the sitenotice. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 02:38, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
== Automatic Import ==
I created a draft for the comic pages. It's still work in progress, but I'd like to retrieve feedback.
Also, maybe we could autmatically import comics using the JSON data Randall gives us ([http://xkcd.com/614/info.0.json]). This way, we could also include transcripts. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:23, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
: Hm, I should add a link to my draft: [[User:SlashMe/Testpage]] ;-) --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
I updated the page, including links to the next/previous comic similar to [[Template:ComicHeader]]. I used comic 472, because it has a lot of metadata (link, news, HTML title, etc.). --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 07:32, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
Just to remind everyone, I'd be ready to import the comics, but I don't want to until I got more feedback. Please have a look at [[User:SlashMe/Testpage]] and tell me your opinion. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
: I think your test page looks great. I'm a big fan of it. Any way to fit the text in the text box rather than having it run all the way to the right? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:19, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:: I just made a change concerning line breaks, at least it works in Firefox and Chrome. Could somebody please test it in different versions of Internet Explorer?
:: If you agree, I would start uploading tomorrow. I'll send you a mail. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 18:31, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:38, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
The discussion is now at [[Explain XKCD:Community_portal/Design#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:20, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
== "Random comic?" ==
Not to clutter the sidebar, but what would you say to adding a "Random comic" right under "Random page", linking to [//dynamic.xkcd.com/random/comic/ //dynamic.xkcd.com/random/comic/] ? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 01:46, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:Naw, xkcd already has a random comic.  I think we should have a ''random explanation''. ;-)  All kidding aside, I was wondering: generating a random member of a category...?  Has that improved since the early days when I tried to do something like that. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 03:19, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
::Hi. For how to do this, we could install the [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Random_In_Category Random In Category] Mediawiki extension, which would allow us to use <nowiki>[[Special:RandomInCategory/Comics]]</nowiki> to point to any random explanation. {{User:Omega/sig}} 22:42, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
::: Or we could move the comics into a Comic namespace, and use Special:Random/comic (See for instance [[Special:Random/template]]). This doesn't require any server-side changes. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 23:58, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
== Header template ==
Hi, I've created a template called [[Template:ComicHeader]], which might make things easier when creating comic pages (and also provide better consistency between the pages). I've used it on the [[Internal monologue]] page, to display the comic number and the date it was published. The template also adds the page to the [[:Category:Comics|Comics]] category.
You just need to add:
<pre>{{ComicHeader|1089|August 1, 2012}}</pre>
…to the start of the page (replacing the comic number and date).
I'll try to make the template look a bit nicer, but the great thing about templates of course, is that once they're updated, the changes are reflected on all the pages that include that template. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 18:46, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
:By the way, I'm thinking of maybe programming something that would allow you to easily import the comic image and alt text from xkcd without having to upload the images manually and the like. You'd just have to host a single PHP file on your server and make a few changes to the MediaWiki configuration. Of course, you'd be able to see source code and everything to make sure I'm not trying to do something fishy. :-P Let me know what you think. :-) --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 18:54, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::Yirba - I like the idea.  My email is [email protected] - send me what you put together and we can sort it out. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:37, 1 August 2012 (EDT)
::Ditto on the Template.  Up-vote.  Any thought on harvesting the pre-wiki content from ExplainXKCD with some sort of a Python, Perl, or PHP script?  (That sounds more like a 'bot than something that would have to be hosted, though.) [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 01:52, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::: I was thinking of putting it into a infobox, please [[#Idea|see above]]. I also intended to automatically extract data from xkcd, which would lack descriptions, but at least we would have data like title, image and transcripts. Also, there are some other data like links (e.g. 832), news (which are displayed in xkcd's header, e.g. 739) and titles which contain HTML (259 and 472). I also extracted all those data. When we agree on a page layout, I could begin programming a bot. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 06:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::Hmmm… an infobox may be a good idea. And a bot that imports data from xkcd might be handy. Anyway, here's something I programmed that would allow for access to the xkcd API from the wiki itself. Essentially, you'd put this xkcdinfo.php ([http://gist.github.com/3239432 source], [http://github.com/downloads/Yirba/yirba.github.com/xkcdinfo.php download]) file somewhere on the server (e.g. at http://www.explainxkcd.com/xkcdinfo.php) and [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Interwiki#Adding_a_new_website_for_interwiki_linking include it in MediaWiki's interwiki table] (ensuring iw_trans == 1):
<pre>INSERT INTO interwiki (iw_prefix, iw_url, iw_local, iw_trans) VALUES ('xkcdinfo', 'http://www.explainxkcd.com/xkcdinfo.php?input=$1', 0, 1);</pre>
::::After [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgEnableScaryTranscluding enabling scary transclusion] in LocalSettings.php, you'd then be able to send queries to the xkcd JSON API via this file. In other words, <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:32-title}}</nowiki></code> would make comic 32's title appear. <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:55-alt}}</nowiki></code> would make comic 55's image text appear. I've also set it so you could enter <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:100-embed}}</nowiki></code>, and it would make the comic 100 image appear on the wiki page. Feel free to use it however you want (if at all), and modify the code should you wish. (Hint: Using the number 0 for the comic number will query the most recent comic, so <code><nowiki>{{xkcdinfo:0-num}}</nowiki></code> will return the current comic number. Also, adding "raw:" before "xkcdinfo:" might be more useful in some instances. E.g.: <code><nowiki>{{raw:xkcdinfo:555-title}}</nowiki></code>)--[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 14:50, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::: Nice idea, altough this would mean to load all data from xkcd whenever a page is <del>viewed</del><ins>edited</ins> (I think this is the way MediaWiki caches the data). This is a lot of traffic for little data. I'd say to include the metadata statically, but linking the external image seems a good thing to me. Again, it'd be great if you gave me feedback for [[User:SlashMe/Testpage|my idea]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:54, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::Yes, the data would be loaded from xkcd for each edit. You can, however, substitute (subst) the template for data that is unlikely to change. And therefore the data would indeed be stored statically. I like the layout you've come up with. It could perhaps do with a bit of tweaking here and there, but the general idea is good. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 17:16, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::: What kind of tweaking do you mean? I know the code is a bit messy, if you have a better idea, please tell me (or do it yourself - hey, it's a wiki!). The CSS should be placed in an external file, but for now, it's ok. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 17:51, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
Looks like there is another/newer template called [[Template:Comic]] that includes prev/next buttons as well.
You add it with:
| number    = 1
| date      = September 30, 2005
| title    = {{PAGENAME}}
| image    = barrel_cropped_(1).jpg
| imagesize =
| alttext  = Don't we all.
<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --~~~~</small>
No need to include the alt text separately, as the template does it for you.  It also includes the comic category, but only if the first 4 fields are filled out.
--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 18:47, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
: Yes, but that is not necessarily an advantage. My template only creates the infobox, so you are still able to create an introductory text or other sections, for special comics that need a more detailed description. I can also add categories if needed. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::I think it is a major advantage to make the thing easier to use and more consistant site-wide.
::As the creator of the new one, I'm obviously biased, but I created it because I think it's better. Not putting your work down, it was a great piece of code that I put to work in my template. But I think if there's need for pre-text of any kind (not sure there is, as the articles probably should all open with the comic itself as presented on XKCD), a pre-comment can be added into the template, but I'm not sure what that would be. Perhaps there would be a requirement for special circumstances like the comic a few weeks ago where there were a million iterations depending on locality, browser, etc. But that's the rarity. I think the new one simplifies it for users. They need only one template to post the comic, alt text title and nav buttons. What could be easier? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:08, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::: As the creator of the other one, I'm equally biased. What about a "main template", which then calls one or two other templates (e.g. one for the infobox, another for image and alt text? For most comics, this main template could be used, but if absolutely needed, it would still be possible to use the underlying templates with custom sections/text. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:15, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::::I just now saw your request for feedback on your new comic page with the sidebar. I honestly am not sure which format is better. I kind of like my format for the fact that it basically presents the comic as it was originally posted, but your infobox does provide some additional stuff like 3D link (not sure what "news" is, of where the "link" comes from but...) Perhaps we could integrate the two. I like that the comic is visble right away on my template, but on your page it's down below the first header. I don't think the comic itself needs an "image" heading. No disrespect, but I think your sidebar, esp. because of the "news" field is a bit chunky - too wide for most of its content.
::::I think we could easily add things like a "3d" link into {{tl|comic}} as part of the next/prev bar where a "3D" field in the template is non-blank. Similarly, original title could read something like (Originally titled: xxxxx) below the primary title in a smaller font. Other than the "link" and "news" fields (which again, I'm not sure what they are), I think that would inclde all the same info as your infobox into my template. Thoughts?
::::As to your other comment about compartmentalizing the template, I have nothing against that, but which parts of the template would you want to be able to use separately (and can you suggest an example where that might be necessary?) Subdividing the template can always be done later if it becomes needed; just trying to get an idea of what you have in mind by compartmentalizing it. Cheers [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:43, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
* I will start by uploading all images. This will take some time and has no points to discuss. (If it has, tell me.) At a later point, maybe we could link them directly from xkcd.com.
* For the comic pages: Let's say we'll use {{tl|Comic}}. I'll change the arguments of the template to be more like my {{tl|Infobox comic}}, see [[Template:Infobox comic#Arguments|documentation]]. I'll keep the ''alttext'' argument, but make ''image'' optional (file name should be guessed from the title). Do we really need ''imagesize''?
* {{tl|Comic}} would then call some further templates, passing the appropriate arguments. This way, we are able to use custom sections/text if needed for special comics (like [http://xkcd.com/1037/ Umwelt]) by using these templates instead of the all-in-one {{tl|Comic}}.
* Since we have one template doing all the work, we can easily change the page layout even after the import. (We should only keep track of the pages that don't use {{tl|Comic}}, using a hidden category)
* For consistency, I would move all existing pages out of the way and re-create them. The moved pages could be collected by adding them to a category like [[:Category:legacy pages]], so they should easily be found. Descriptions should be moved to the new pages, afterwards the legacy pages can be deleted.
This way, I can import all comics, but we would still be able to change the layout afterwards. My 2ct concerning page layout:
* <del>'''Use comic titles as page names.'''</del><ins>(See below)</ins> The title should be prominent, the number will be in the infobox.
* I'll remove ''Original title'', ''news'' and ''link'' from the infobox and move them to a section after the description. (For details, see [[Template:Infobox_comic#Documentation|here]])
* suggested layout:
=====page title=====
+--------------------+ +---------+
|                    | | infobox |
|      image        | | text  |
|(no section heading)| |        |
|                    | |        |
|                    | +---------+
==original title, news and link== (if available)
Still open for opinions.--[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:13, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:It might make more sense to use the comic number as the page title, and then use [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowDisplayTitle DISPLAYTITLE] to make the comic title appear in place of the number. Just putting that out as another possibility. --[[User:Yirba|Yirba]] ([[User talk:Yirba|talk]]) 09:49, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
::Good point, I agree. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 09:54, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
If anyone wants to use it, I've written a bot [http://pastebin.com/5F877BHE] that can upload images, create redirect pages, and create comic pages. You can change the format it uses for the comic page if you have some knowledge of python. To use it, look at [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Pywikipediabot/Quick_Start_Guide]. --[[User:Cyanfish|Cyanfish]] ([[User talk:Cyanfish|talk]]) 10:56, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:Sorry, I was faster. I'm using [http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/mwclient/ mwclient], and I already uploaded all images. I could also create pages and redirects, but I'm waiting until we have a consent. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 11:02, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
::A few thoughts: if you start uploading images, but don't create the comic pages with them, a user going to create a new comic page isn't going to know whether or not the comic image has already been uploaded. This could be confusing. Hopefully the uploads are going to be named the same as the original images? (when I do upload, I actually just paste the URL in my "browse" box and upload directly from my browsers cache that way so it works out), but I just want to avoid duplicating images on the server as well as wasting time by trying to upload something that's already there.
::As to the page layout, I'm still of the view that the transcript should be in a collapsed frame so that it doesn't take up half the article. I don't honestly think that most people are coming to read the transcript. I could be wrong tho. Open to opinions on that. Otherwise, I do like transcript AFTER The explanation (also, the heading "explanation" vs. "description" as mentioned in another discussion in the portal. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:09, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::PS: We definately need imagesize. It defaults to full size, but I think we definately need the optional argument for large comics. Remembering that this is a wiki to explain the comics, there are many large comics that ought to be restricted to a smaller size for the page (they can be clicked to enlarge - the template automatically creates a "click to enlarge" link if imagesize is used). I have generally been using a 375 or 400px size for keeping larger comics managable, but sometimes it's a comic-dependant decision. Also, notwithstanding my comment on another thread, even though I agree that the xkcd commentary is actually "title text", just as a side note, I've just noticed that the transcripts for older comics actually do call it "alt text") [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:40, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: As long as no one has any objections, this header looks awesome (with ImageSize as TheHYPO suggested), so feel free to work on the importation functionality.  Let me know if you need anything from me in order to import from the Wordpress side of things.  If we start talking importation, lets move that conversation under a different header. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:56, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
=== Date format ===
I suggest to enter the date as YYYY-MM-DD and using <nowiki>{{#dateformat: {{date}}}</nowiki> in {{tl|comic}}. This way, the date should be displayed using the personal preferences (see [[Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-datetime]]). Does anyone disagree? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 20:42, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
== Displaying Comics {{done|Closed}}==
For the home page, I think the comic and explanation should be displayed instead of a link to the comic.
For reasons unknown to me, I decided to create [[Template:Comicbox]] and [[Template:Comicbox2]]. Looks nice, as long as you use the correct one for the comic.
Go to [[User:Grep/comicbox]] and [[User:Grep/comicbox2]] for examples. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:Those're wonderful! And should probably be on the main page.  If you wanted, we could probably incorporate them (and maybe a third?) into a single template with a "square/vertical or horizontal" switch. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 21:36, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::Also, you used "comicbox" for the class.  Is that a class that's defined somewhere?  (And if so, where?) --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 21:36, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
:::Good point. Removed. And merging them sounds wonderful. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
::::Maybe merging them into [[Template:comicbox]]? --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:::::I think classes are defined at [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], so if you really wanted to define the class....  And [[Template:Comicbox]] would probably be best.  Did you want to merge them or should I take a look at it? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 22:25, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::ParserFunctions and any sort of non-XMLish markup is weird. I would rather you look at it. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:::::::Okay, I've moved your templates to {{tl|Comicbox square or vertical}} and {{tl|Comicbox horizontal}} so I can work on {{tl|Comicbox}} as the main one.  It may take a while - I like to think of myself as a "[[wikipedia:Category:User template coder|master of all known wikimarkup]]," but I don't actually use those skills that often. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 23:08, 2 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::::Thanks. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:::::::::I've made it at {{tl|Comicbox}}.  This actually leaves {{tl|Comicbox square or vertical}} and {{tl|Comicbox horizontal}} unused, though I credited you (and them) in a comment at the top of the template.  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:21, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::::::I think that the explanation should be on the right because it just looks weird as is... --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
{{outdent}} Sure.  But right now they both look like they're on the bottom?  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 20:02, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:{{done|Fixed}} --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
===Sans-serif typeface {{done|Closed}}===
::::::::I like these, too, but the roman typeface... how do folks feel about sticking with a sans-serif typeface throughout the site?  [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 00:13, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::We should be able to change that wiki-wide through [[MediaWiki:Common.css]], I think.  Unfortunately, I don't know enough CSS to do it. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:23, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::::::::: I believe sans serif is already the default wiki-wide. Those specific instances were deliberately coded to use a serif font. It's just a matter of removing <code>font-family: 'Times New Roman';</code> from the template. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:01, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::::::::::: Oh, I'd missed that.  I removed it. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 22:14, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
== comic header ==
Jeff, further to your previous conversation on the comic header, I've significantly rewritten Yirba's template (thanks to Yirba for the hard work. His navigation bar was very useful) and I've created a new template of {{tl|comic}}. An example of the comic in use can be seen at [[T-shirts]]. I started a discussion on the main page discussion board, but I thought if I pointed it out to you and you like it, it can start going in the rotation for new comics.
I actually now see that Grep did a template up with intent (I think) to use for the main page. Had I known that when I started, I would have probably based my template off of his, because it looks nice, but either way, mine is intended for the actual articles. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:46, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:Again, may I link to <del>[[User talk:Jeff#Automatic Import|my request for feedback]]</del>? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:52, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
The discussion is now at [[Explain XKCD:Community_portal/Design#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:17, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[User talk:Jeff]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:37, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
== Bylines ==
In the migration from blog to wiki, I noticed a few things:
# Visitors still seem to assume there's a single, ''invisible other'' that provides the explanations; this might be a carryover from the blog days when Jeff was the author of that content, or it may be newcomers not familiar with the license-to-create a wiki offersYou see it in comments that call out corrections, without the corrections actually being made to the explanations.  Usually a more savvy editor swings in, makes the fix, and chimes in on the comments.
# There's no visual cue on the page itself to disabuse a novice of that fact.  Sure, wikiphiles will check the history; but aside from that the novice has is left in the dark, and certainly isn't led to the conclusion that they, too, can contribute to the explanation.
To that end, I was wondering:  why not put a {{tl|byline}} on each explanation, and give credit where credit is due?  I know Waldir wanted to "gamify" the wiki a bit.  I don't know that I'd go ''that'' far, but putting bylines does kill a few birds by raising awareness of the democratic approach to explanations, and giving kudos to the contributor(s).  I've prototyped it (and of course, it's subject to revision) but here's how it would work:
* '''<nowiki>{{byline|you}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|you}}
* '''<nowiki>{{byline|you|me}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|you|me}}
* '''<nowiki>{{byline|you|me|someone else}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|you|me|someone else}}
* More concretely, '''<nowiki>{{byline|Jeff|Waldir|IronyChef|Blaisepascal}}</nowiki>''' produces {{byline|Jeff|Waldir|IronyChef|Blaisepascal}}
(in general, the parameters are the usernames, up to about 5 or six contributors, for now.)  Was thinking about having the content be automatically turned into wiki-links, but left that out while we think it over.  Thotz? -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:22, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:: How would we indicate who is in the byline?  The person who created the page?  The person who edited the most characters?  Would it be a combination of all the names? --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 14:32, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I have to say, it sounds contrary to the whole wiki premise. I agree with you that there does seem to be a bit of a learning curve here, but I don't know if "crediting" the explanations is the right solution. How much editing does one have to do to get credit on an article? You might get people who want to edit just to get credits, and credits over time could get relatively lengthy. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:41, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
== Template improvement suggestion ==
Can I suggest that we work on improving {{tl|ComicHeader}} - I wish I had time to do it myself and then edit all the comic pages, but I would suggest the best way might be to start a new template (perhaps design it a bit more like an infobox) and start converting the old pages over to new ones.
The feature I think should be added is that, where the template currently includes teh comic number and date, and creates the nav header, the template really ought to include the image name, and the alt text. In that way, the template can produce the entire part of the article that displays the comic and its alt text (and the alt text, as mentioned, could be more like a caption, instead of just looking like a generic section of the article - it's part of the comic, it shouldn't look like part of the article on this site (no offence, Jeff, but that's one thing I always didn't like about explain XKCD - the image text should be bold or underlined or italics or something to signify that it's part of the comic and not the explanation.
I'll see if I can work on a prototype. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 12:29, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:What does everyone thing of this as a better layout? [[Blown Apart]] [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 13:09, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::May I link to <del>[[User talk:Jeff#Automatic Import|my request for feedback]]</del>? --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 15:52, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:44, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
<small>The discussion is now at [[#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:17, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
== Transcripts ==
Do we need to add a whole section on "Transcript" for each comic? That could get very long for some comics, and basically pushes the explanations down further (which is what people generally come to explainxkcd for). If anything, perhaps the transcripts could be in a minimizable box like some navboxes do on wikipedia? I don't see a majority of users coming to read the transcripts... [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:15, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
: What about putting the transcripts at the bottom of the page?
: BTW: If you agree, this discussion should be moved to [[Explain XKCD:Community portal]], as [[User:Waldir|Waldir]] suggested. At least for new discussions. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:19, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
::No problem there. Feel free to move it. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 19:29, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:::How about having it be collapsed, with the option to expand it (TOC-like)? -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:25, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
<small>Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:47, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
<small>The discussion is now at [[#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:18, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
== Adding a new comic ==
This is the process I use to add a new comic. YMMV...  Feel free to update this as/if needed to provide some consistency...--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 19:22, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
I start by uploading the image using the name from [[XKCD]]'s page.
I create the new page using the comic number(not the name), e.g. "http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1"
I (currently) insert using the "Comic" template:
| number    = 1
| date      = September 30, 2005
| title    = {{PAGENAME}}
| image    = barrel_cropped_(1).jpg
| imagesize =
| alttext  = Don't we all.
This is the transcript from xkcd
Wow what a cool comic!
I "Show preview" to ensure the image shows up and everything looks good.
I "Save page".
I click the "move" link on the down-arrow drop-down menu to the right of "View history" (at top of page).
I rename the page from "1" to the page title from [[XKCD]].
This will automatically create a redirect from "1" to the correct page name without having to do it manually.
--[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 19:22, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
:Please, have a break here. When we agree on a page layout, I can do this automatically. I repeat, when we agree on the layout (which should also include the direction of the redirects) --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 19:25, 3 August 2012 (EDT)
<small>Moved from [[Talk:Main Page]]. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 00:47, 4 August 2012 (EDT)</small>
The discussion concerning the layout is at [[Explain XKCD:Community_portal/Design#Header template]]. --[[User:SlashMe|SlashMe]] ([[User talk:SlashMe|talk]]) 04:18, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
== styling of xkcd links ==
I added code to the end of [[MediaWiki:Common.css]] to style links to the xkcd website as http://xkcd.com rather than the regular external link format, http://example.com. What do you guys think? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 05:06, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:I like it generally.  Is there a way to force it to not display on individual pages, though?  I don't think we should have it at [[Explain XKCD:Copyrights]], {{tl|XKCD file}}, or {{tl|XKCD file derived}}, as they are more serious.  --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 16:27, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
::Sure. I've disabled it on those pages, feel free to add more as you see fit. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 17:22, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:::Thanks! --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 18:34, 4 August 2012 (EDT)
:I like the idea of the graphic, too, but wonder if it could be muted a bit (medium gray vs black) so it recedes a bit into the background; the classic graphic is a very light blue for that reason, too.  (Oh, and a minor quibble... overheard: "who is that short, bearded dude?" "Oh! That's megan?") ... I don't know how we could update it, and maybe it'll be less of an issue when muted... Thotz?  -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 14:16, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
::The image can be updated by uploading new versions of [[File:xkcd favicon.png]]. It doesn't need to be the xkcd.com favicon; in fact, it would be good if we could make it even smaller (e.g. just cueball's head, or simply "xkcd" in the typical handwritten font, etc). Making it dimmer also seems like a good idea, btw. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:38, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
== 'Explanation' rather than 'Description' ==
Can I suggest we use the heading "Explanation" rather than "Description" on the comic pages, since that fits with the name of the wiki? --[[User:SurturZ|SurturZ]] ([[User talk:SurturZ|talk]]) 09:20, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
:Agreed. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 14:27, 5 August 2012 (EDT)
::Seconded [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:04, 7 August 2012 (UTC)
== Allow external inline images ==
Hi. I'd like to propose that we set [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowExternalImages $wgAllowExternalImages] to true '''or''' add <tt>xkcd.com</tt> and some image hosting sites (such as <tt>imgur.com</tt>) to [http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:$wgAllowExternalImagesFrom $wgAllowExternalImagesFrom]. If the former is set to true, external images will be allowed from any host, whereas if the former is kept as false but we add some sites to the latter (obviously adding xkcd's site itself seems to be the logical choice), then only images that are from whitelisted sites can appear as inline images. What this does is it allows external images to be displayed as an actual image, rather than just a link (note that sites not in the whitelist will still appear as just the link). Why? Because there's no way to display images without uploading them. Obviously some editors may wish to use images for non-wiki purposes, such as proposing alternative logos or for their userspace, in which case uploading the images to this site isn't entirely practical. Allowing externally hosted images to be displayed will alleviate that problem.
Yes, there is the risk of... less appropriate images being displayed, however, I consider that being a null argument, as editors could just as easily upload the image here and link it as an internal image. As well, using the whitelist alternative would limit the image to being posted from a trusted site, such as imgur. Finally, if worries about nude photos being posted is really a concern (seriously, what's stopping an editor from just uploading said image here? Nothing.), it's possible to only whitelist sites which don't permit nude images from being hosted on their site (such as <tt>imageshack.us</tt>), although I think that's a bit extreme (especially considering that imgur is hands down the most popular image host these days). {{User:Omega/sig}} 07:52, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
:I really don't see a compelling reason to have this. It's not about improper images or anything. (Note that we already have access to all images in [[commons:|Wikimedia Commons]], by the way, which has a large variety of images and other media, with the added benefit that we're sure they can be reused without licensing concerns). A specific whitelist could be interesting (e.g. we could hotlink the images from xkcd), but having the images here allows us to do neat things like categorizing them by topic, size, etc. Also, images like logo proposals, etc. do benefit from being uploaded here (for historical interest, for a guarantee that they won't be deleted wherever they're hosted, for better control regarding how they're displayed, etc.) --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:27, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
== Latest comic handling ==
Currently the latest comic is handled automatically by the {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}} template, which tests the existence of pages like 1092, 1093 (supposed to be redirects to the corresponding comics), to see which is the highest-number existing page, and consider it the latest comic.
That way we can have the latest comic automatically transcluded on the main page.
But we cannot have, with that system, an automatic "Edit" link (to edit the latest comic) on the main page, nor can we have automatically the comments associated with that latest comic. The former was {{diff|5587|changed to a "Go to this comic" link}}, and the latter was {{diff|4940|removed}}. I think both of them are really useful things to have on the main page.
I've been thinking a little bit about this, and in the end I suggest that we handle manually the latest comic :
* There would be a single {{tl|latest comic}} template, which would have to be updated manually to return the full title of the latest comic's page (such as "1092: Michael Phelps").
* Next to the "Latest comic" header, on the front page, would be appended a "[update]" link, to a page explaining that to insert the new latest comic in the wiki: one needs to 1/ create a page titled "<number>: <title>" and 2/ update the {{tl|latest comic}} template with the new title.
* The "Edit this explanation" link could be put back on the main page, using something like <code><nowiki>[{{fullurl:{{latest comic}}|action=edit}} '''Edit this explanation''']</nowiki></code>. And I firmly believe that link is important. ({{diff|5598|*this*}} for instance is exactly what I'm talking about)
* The comments to the latest comic could be appended under the latest comic's transclusion, with something like <code><nowiki>{{ {{TALKPAGENAME: {{latest comic}} }} }}</nowiki></code>. They could be in a collapsible area if they take too much space. Same here than about the edit link, I believe that's really important to impel/motivate readers to leave their comments as well.
* Finally, when only the number is needed (such as in the computation of the number of missing explanations), this could be done via another template (for instance {{tl|latest comic number}}), automatic this time, which would replace the current {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}} by extracting the value out of {{tl|latest comic}} (with something like <code><nowiki>{{#explode:{{latest comic}}|:}}</nowiki></code>).
So, yes there would be a value to update manually, but that's not really much and if it's part of a process I don't think that would be a big drawback, and on the other hand I think it would be less error-prone than an automatic calculation, and allow more useful things. And make less use of redirects as well. Furthermore, the current {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}}, used quite a lot (in the sidebar, so in every page actually), makes heavy use of the <code><nowiki>{{#ifexist:...}}</nowiki></code> parser function, [[mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##ifexist|qualified as "expensive"]], so even though it may not be a big deal it could be a better option to try to avoid that...
What do you think?
[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 16:53, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
:Quick interjection in the middle of this larger posting, but I've been playing around with a template that should radically simplify the exhaustive and expensive logic used by {{tl|LATESTCOMIC}} by using date math.  It's been simmering in my test kitchen, and I'm fairly sure it's robust enough to roll out... just one thing: it would be much more efficient if we had the Variables extension (ie, ADMIN REQUEST) else there would be a lot of duplicate recalculation of the date.  Not terrible, but not as good as it could be.  See {{tl|LatestComicOnDate}} and the associated talk page for the guts of it. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
:A few considerations:
:* We can instead add the edit link directly to the comic page. It could be generated by the {{tl|comic}} template, which already has to be provided with both the number and the title of the comic (in fact those could even be automatically extracted from the page title with some [[mw:Extension:StringFunctions|string parsing functions]] or {{w|Template:Str number/trim|clever}} {{w|Template:Remove first word|templates}}). This should solve the "edit this comic" link issue.
:* Actually, the discussion part was hidden from the main page on purpose (although for a different reason: it was transcluding the main page's own talk page instead). I am not sure it's a good idea to include it in the main page as it could clutter it, but I can understand the point of putting it there. I would suggest perhaps including it directly rather than inside the {{tl|comic discussion}} box, as that would create a box on a box layout that I don't think would look too good. Note that there is no problem with needing the pagename here, since we can transclude a redirect (the same way the actual comic page is transcluded using only the number, which is a redirect).
:* I did see that edit and was thinking that we could probably display a custom info message whenever someone attempts to edit main page, so they'll know they ''can'' edit the actual comic page. I'll add that to my todo list.
:* Mediawiki itself will tell us when a potentially expensive parser function is being used too much, by placing the corresponding page in [[:Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls]]. So we don't need to be concerned with {{w|premature optimization}} :)
:--[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 19:16, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
::The edit link can be displayed, specifically on the main page, by the {{tl|comic}} template, that is true; it just seems wrong to me however, it's not his job to do so...
::As for the comments, they cannot be displayed by the template (unless we put them before the explanation), so we still don't have a solution for them; and I still believe they would be very useful on the main page, very appealing for readers to come and comment as well.
::So, problem still not solved I would say... - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 16:27, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::: I don't see the problem with {{tl|comic}} displaying the edit link on the main page, especially since you consider using it to display the discussion as well (which, I agree, unfortunately isn't possible)
::: I added the discussion to the main page. It will depend on a redirect being created for the talk page as well every time a new comic is released, but it doesn't make it any harder. Compare:
:::# Create comic page at <nowiki>[[123: title]]</nowiki>
:::# Update <nowiki>{{latest comic}}</nowiki>
:::# Redirect <nowiki>[[123]] to [[123: title]]</nowiki> <small>(it's necessary to allow people to get to the comic with only the number)</small>
:::# Create comic page at <nowiki>[[123: title]]</nowiki>
:::# Redirect <nowiki>[[123]] to [[123: title]]</nowiki>
:::# Redirect <nowiki>[[Talk:123]] to [[Talk:123: title]]</nowiki>
:::Therefore, I don't see a strong case for creating the <nowiki>{{latest comic}}</nowiki> template. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 20:31, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::::You're right, the two systems are equivalent in use; but then is there a strong case to keep the current one against using the one I suggested?
::::Currently we cannot get an "add a comment" link on the main page, and to put the "edit this explanation" banner below the explanation one has to put it on the comic page (and manually remove it once the comic is not the latest any more). And when there is no comments yet, the main page displays a weird red link (transclusion of the redirect page to a non-existant page) instead of displaying (for instance) a nice "''No comments yet''".
::::True, the {{tl|comic}} template could be used to, specifically on the main page, display something like "view page - edit - add a comment" on top-right, but that doesn't solve all these issues, and then the links wouldn't be at their ideal place. And one could argue that all the features I'm speaking about are not absolutely necessary, but I still think it would be better at least.
::::All in all, I can live with the current system, but I still believe a manually updated <nowiki>{{latest comic}}</nowiki> would allow, without cost, to set a better layout of content, navigation links and edit/comment links.
::::[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 16:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
:::*I am in agreement that the goal should be to have the ability to comment directly onto the main page for the current comic.
::::Can all pages be formatted to look like the main page (ie header with number of comics explained/remaining and the 3 paragraphs at the end describing the site).
::::If this could be done (I don't think it would clutter the site as these take up very little space even on the main page), then could we just redirect the main page to the comic with the highest number? The function of the main page would not change as a new user would still see all information currently available on the main page, but it would have the added benefit of sending visitors to the desired location (the fully functional current comic page).
::::[[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 17:23, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
== How to reference strips? ==
I think we need to agree on a citation style for strips in plain prose. I.e. If the [[Black Hat]] article says "Black Hat first appears in ________", how are we filling that blank? In this case, the blank is [[29: Hitler]]. As I understand it, proper style for an "episode" name typically is quotes, so the stip is "Hitler". But there's still various options:
# "[[29: Hitler|Hitler]]" [quotes not linked]
# [[29: Hitler|"Hitler"]]  [quotes linked]
# [[29: Hitler|Comic #29]]
# [[29: Hitler|#29]]
# [[29: Hitler]]
# "[[29: Hitler|Hitler]]" (29)
# "[[29: Hitler|Hitler]]" (#29)
Anyone have any opinions? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 21:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
: Option 5. above seems the simplest, yet readable and informative. At most I'd prepend a # sign, like so: #[[29: Hitler]]. Being a link should be enough to differentiate it from the rest of the text (without needing quote signs). Alternatively, #7 also may be an acceptable option, but we'd need a template to make sure the formatting is maintained in all such references... I don't think it's worth the extra complexity. --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 23:54, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
:: Whatever we decide, let's encode it into the <nowiki>{{xkcd}}</nowiki> and/or <nowiki>{{explain}}</nowiki> templates, and just agree to use those templates.  That allows central administration of the stylistic issues and gives editors a simple rule to follow.  Minor tweaks to either would afford that flexibility. Right now, they generate the links {{xkcd|29}} and {{explain|29}} respectively, though the latter can be {{explain|29: Hitler}} without much fuss.  -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 05:58, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
::: I support modifying the <nowiki>{{explain}}</nowiki> template to be along the lines of proposal number five. {{User:Omega/sig}} 09:20, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
:::: Five. yes. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 18:15, 9 August 2012 (UTC)
== Sidebar icons ==
Hi all. I hope you'll forgive my enthusiasm but I went ahead and implemented an icon theme for the sidebar (as well as more spacing between the links, for extra breathing room). What do you guys think of it? --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 21:45, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
:I like it, but I'm not sure where you added them.  Was that on a MediaWiki: page or one of the .css pages? --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 01:39, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
::Both :) [[Mediawiki:Common.css]] --[[User:Waldir|Waldir]] ([[User talk:Waldir|talk]]) 09:07, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
== Cueball/Rob ==
I noticed someone edited the character template to add an article for "[[Rob]]". I thought this might have just been a vandal edit, but I googled 'xkcd Rob' and discovered that indeed, a Cueball chracter has been referenced as Rob in several strips. Is there a reason Cueball hasn't been designated officially "Rob" just as [[Megan]] has been designated Megan by being named in a few strips? Do we have reason to believe that other Cueballs are non-Rob characters? PS: this might not be the right place for this discussion, but I'm not sure if anyone is reading article discussion pages at this point yet, and I thought that the name of the primary character might be a notable issue of discussion [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:07, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
:: I'm unclear on this as well.  Cueball was just a name made up (I think here on this site) for the main character of the comic. Are there separate characters for Cueball and Rob? I'm not sure. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 15:52, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I know that "Cueball" has now been severely grandfathered in, but I think we have to consider moving [[Cueball]] over to [[Rob]] and basically considering the Cueball character to be "Rob", in the same way as Megan, unless it's clear that the character isn't Rob, since Cueball, as noted, is not an official title. I'm somewhat leaning in this direction.
:::I do see some leakage of the term "Cueball" into other sites via a google search including xkcd forums. In the alternatively, I would suggest mentioning in the Cueball article that he has been referred to as "Rod" in some comics, but due to his lack of distinguishing physical traits, it is not always clear if a comic is depicting Rod, or a different character. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]])
::::I have to agree with this. When I first heard about the page on "Rob", I was a bit skeptical, as I couldn't recall hearing the name before and the page was ridiculous at the time. However, after looking him up to try and verify the page, I found a number of "Cueball" characters that were referred to as "Rob", officially (and even an instance where the transcript referred to the character as "Rob" when the comic didn't mention a name). TL; DR: The character we've all called "Cueball" seems to be more properly known as "Rob". {{User:Omega/sig}} 22:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::{{explain|285|Citation needed...}}  I, for one, would oppose the migration away from Cueball. 
:::::# {{w|xkcd|Wikipedia}} has been silent on the matter, giving no more credibility to the apellation than Cueball.
:::::# Transcripts in xkcd typically (granted, with a few exceptions) refer to the various stick figures as Person 1, etc.  Frequently, there are several stick figures, all essentially the same generic stick-figure shape.  Rob is a specific proper noun, and it would be silly to suggest that each stick figure is named Rob.  Cueball, on the other hand, while filling the role of a proper noun, is still generic enough to suggest the any-man nature of the figures.  It is descriptive more than nominative.
:::::# Local color.  That's part of what distinguishes this site from others, and part of why I've been coming back.  I for one would be sad to see that replaced with MacDonalds-like sameness.  I ''might'' reconsider if RM's About page definitively said "his name is Rob"... but only reluctantly.
:::::So -1 on the proposition to migrate away from Cueball. -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 04:55, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::To respond to your points, #1, Wikipedia is not official or a primary source; it's a community edit encyclopedia like this one. If you'd like me to go over there and reference "Rob", then all of a sudden Wikipedia will say Rob. Wikipedia isn't the source of credibility for xkcd imo. #2 is interesting, and I take it as a fair point (I'm not suggesting that in every case we see a Cueball it is the same character) but my interest here is consistency. Megan appears in many comic strips where she is listed as "person 2" in the transcript, such as [[1084]]. Should she be given a generic name other than where she is named (Cuebelle?) Similarly for #3, Megan is not refernced on the xkcd About page; it's about consistency. I understand color and such, but to an extent, when you take something that's a blog and turn it into a wiki style pseudo-encyclopedia, one of the casualties sometimes is color. It became inappropriate to use phrases like "I think" in explanations just because of the way the articles are perceived. In the same way, consistency is something that I think is important when going to this style format. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:26, 15 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::::::<small>Just want to insert here that I laughed at "Cubelle" above, but though I enjoyed it, I'd have to say the visual similarity to Cueball would likely cause confusion. Props for the suggestion, though.--[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 18:51, 30 August 2012 (UTC)</small>
:::::::* Agreed that Wikipedia is not official or primary, but it is ''de-facto'' (it's likely more linked-to than even xkcd.com is on this site, for some reason.)  That standing gives it a level of authority no other site has except the source itself.  And agreed, one could very easily go and add Rob, or Cueball, or some other designation to the character(s).  But nobody to date has (or, if they have, it may very likely have been reverted, being subject to that evolutionary force Wikipedia in aggregate exerts on subjects there, on needing to be noteworthy.)  So while not an absolute authority, it caries a gravitas that other than xkcd itself, no other site really posesses on the matter, and so far, it (the collective body of contributors) has not deemed it important to settle the matter.
:::::::* I'm also not altogether convinced that, in transmogrification from blog to wiki, it necessarily follows that we must become more Wiki''pedia''-like. The medium has afforded a democratization of information here, but not a requirement that information lose its local flavor to become some dessicated academic dissertation.  "I think" is, in my opinion, as valid here as it always was, and mediawiki doesn't necessarily impose otherwise.
:::::::* As for consistency, it serves its purpose, but generally I'm not one to be ruled by hobgoblins.
:::::::Anyway, the foregoing being only my opinion, and having express it, I leave it at that.  Other minds may differ.  -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 02:30, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
::::::::It seems to me that this discussion has moved away from Cueball/Rob, and perhaps is deserving of it's own section now.  When this site was a blog, and not a wiki, there was a clear separation between Jeff's explanations in the main body of the post, and the comments below.  For the most part, Jeff wrote in an "editorial voice", and I don't recall a lot of "I think", "In my opinion", etc in the main posting (there was an occasional "I don't get this, can anyone explain it?", but that's clearly different).  I know, at least, I've tried to maintain that color here: in the main page, editorial voice; in the discussion section (included at the bottom of every page, usually), personal voice.  I think that works well.  In my opinion, I think that "I think" and "In my opinion" have no place where it's not clear who the speaker is.  The main pages are group edited, and have no identified speaker, so I wouldn't put it there. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 02:53, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:::::::::I concur that Wikipedia has ''some'' gravitas over any other site, and there is a reason it has links here (it is easier to link to an existing encyclopedia article on {{w|quantum physics}} than to start from scratch explaining it here. But in the same way that this may soon be a "wikipedia" for all things xkcd, that still doesn't make explainxkcd official. It may be considered a more reliable source of information than some random blogger, but that doesn't make it an official source. Wikipedia, notably, doesn't call Cueball anything. If it called him Cueball, that would be one thing - the name would have pervaded culture outside this website; but Wikipedia takes no position; I don't see how we can take Wikipedia's failure to reference the character at all and use this as a rationale to make any decision on this site one way or another.
:::::::::I will respond to BlaisePascal's editorial voice comment in a new section [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:40, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
== Default color? ==
Frankly, I'm not even sure this is an issue on the wiki's end vs. the browser's default, but I've noticed this with other wiki-based software. With the default of Blue links and Purple visited links, I've been noticing a lot lately that the Purple visited links are not really standing out from the otherwise black text. Not sure why this is. Is anyone else noticing this? I'm having a hard time finding wikilinks in text that I've already visited. Perhaps it's just me. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:37, 13 August 2012 (UTC)
: As a color blind user of explainxkcd, I'd like to put in a vote to up the contrast between visited and not links on the wiki. It doesn't need to be much, but more than it is now would be infinitely helpful. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 21:21, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
::Has this gone anywhere? I still find it hard to see the visited links (they now simply look like the rest of the text). And the unvisited links are hard to focus on. I'm not sure I can explain it any better. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 20:25, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
== Comments ==
Please let me know where the comments are for the latest comic. If
I'm not the only one who can't find them, can there be a link next to the comic?
== Editorial Voice ==
:''This section is split off in response to a comment by [[user:Blaisepascal]] in the Cueball/Rob discussion above.
I concur with Blaisepascal on the editorial voice issue. "first person" has no place in a wiki, as there is no single editor to be "I". I have a recollection that when the wiki started, Jeff said something about how in moving to a wiki, he had attempted to edit most of the explanations that has been moved over to remove most of the first-person references, but he invited others to continue this where he missed them. I can't, however, find this reference anywhere anymore. Assuming I am not making this up in my own mind, it's Jeff's site, so I think his style wishes are paramount.
I agree that most of the personal references on explainxkcd are things like "let's see if I get this right" or "Did I miss something?" or general bloggish comments like sorry I'm late to post; but there are other posts such as [http://www.explainxkcd.com/2010/10/18/connected/ this one] in which part of Jeff's post was: "''This is another one of those xkcd's that I classify as "emo".  [...] Since there is nothing to explain here, [...] I'll wait for the next comic that makes a joke about Lord of the Rings and wormholes or something''" when moved over here.
The wiki format changes the nature of the explanations. It makes them no longer one person's opinion on the meaning of a comic. It is now a wiki where members of the public will aim to have a complete and accurate explanation built from many editors' thoughts and corrections. I don't think the articles need have encyclopedic definity. I have no issue with phrases like "it appears" or "it may be" where something is ambiguous, but "I think" or "I did a Google search" are not wikipropriate. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:44, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:For the most part I completely agree. But I think that the explanations should not be boring. Even without personal pronouns, many of them have a congenial tone, not an overbearing one.
:For example, when I brought over [[1030: Keyed]], I took out the personal pronouns, but I left in the comment "Oh Beret Guy, never change." I started coming to the site, in part, because of the tone. I think that that should be preserved despite the inherent non-oneness of the wiki. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:08, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
== Discussion comments link? ==
*Does anyone else think that the {{tl|comic discussion}}  template should have an argument added for some way to display a link to the comments section of the original blog posts for older comics? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 15:48, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
**I'm not sure that it would always be clear what the comments are referring to since the explanation may differ from the original.-[[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 21:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
***I hear you, and that's a valid point; but it seems a shame to just discard the upwards of a hundred comments that sometimes took place on the old blog. I guess it also matters whether [[User:Jeff]] intends to delete the blog version at some point given the wiki. If it is going to stay up, why not link to the archived comments? The original blog post would be viewable there as well, if there were any differences relevant to those comments. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:03, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
*I would, however, like something to be done about the issue of new users finding the discussion section from the explain wiki main page. A suggestion I saw recently on the old site by rewq^ suggesting changing 'go to this comic' to 'comments' would solve the problem. I think it could also be changed to 'go to comments' - [[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 21:21, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
== RSS ==
In my Google Reader I only get the link 'This explanation is on the wiki!', which is nice but completely unusable. Can there be a RSS feed again?
: Here you go... http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Special:NewPages&feed=rss  (Don't forget to sign your posts with the signature tool above. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:57, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
== LiveJournal content ==
I've noticed that people are putting content from Randall's LiveJournal account into comic articles here, which I think is good. But I'd like to make some style suggestions around that.
Let's look at {{explain|42}}. Now, until someone explicitly pointed it out, I had no idea xkcd started on a LiveJournal account, so comments like "Original quote" or "Original comment" or "Original title" were confusing to me. I had no idea the source of this information. Now that I know better, my suggestions are as follows:
# These shouldn't be listed as "trivia". This is official content. I would suggest perhaps this be included in a "Background" section with any other background info on the comic (e.g. for some recent comics, it might reference Randall's fiancée's health issues for relevant comics).
# This "Background" section contains official content and more official than the "Explanation". The Background section should therefore go first.
# The section should be written in prose, not point form. My sample replacement for the above article would be "this comic was originally posted on Randall's LiveJournal account with the comment "''No laughing, 'less you want some of this too! *hefts golf club menacingly*''". Randall listed his mood at the time as "sick". The comic was actually the Xth comic posted on the LiveJournal account, and was included out-of-order when it was numbered as part of ''xkcd''.
# I think [[LiveJournal]] should have a brief article about the original LJ account.
# I note that on other wiki's including, for example [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Family_(episode) Memory alpha (example)] and on Wikipedia, they often have boxes showing the 'previous'/'next' things on a list (prev/next songs to hit #1 on different music charts, or prev/next tv episodes produced vs. aired). Should we give thought to creating a short sub-list of the Order comics were actually posted on the Livejournal so you can prev/next through that list?
Thoughts? [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 22:17, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
:I added most of the LJ related "Trivia" just to get it into the wiki.  I think expanding it would be nice, but I'm a bit lazy :)  I did add a new category for the LJ posts, so they should be easier to find.  There are still a few that do not (that I can find) appear in LJ, so I left as "undated" - but added the undated category that someone else had created.  I was also considering creating a list ordered by LJ posting order on the LJ category page (to be created) to at least preserve some of the nostalgia.  Is there another pre-xkcd site besides LJ that posts might have appeared in?  Or are these "undated" posts possibly others that were just lumped into the "early posts" on xkcd? --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 21:05, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
::There are three undated comics that I found (and I noted them on the "big board" of all comics at [[list of all comics]]. If no one disagrees, I will start moving sections when I have time and creating any new sections as "Background" rather than "Trivia" where the sections relate to the history or backstory of the comic itself. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:04, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
:::The three undated comics do not appear on LiveJournal, just on the xkcd.com site.  Given that (a) all of the comics on LJ from before 2006-1-1 are dated 2006-1-1 on xkcd, (b) all the ones after are dated with the same dates as on LJ, and (c) the three undated comics appear in the middle of the pre-2006 comics on LJ, I suspect that [[Randall]] posted them to the xkcd site first, and as part of a batch of comics he posted to bootstrap the site.  So it's entirely likely that the 2006-1-1 date is accurate. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 16:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
I added, in the "Trivia" section, a "thread" tying all the LJ comics together, in order.  In doing so, I also added the half-dozen or so LJ comics not yet added. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 16:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
== Programmatically Accessing Comics ==
I think there should be a way for other websites to view* explanations, (discussions?), etc programmatically.
This could be used for the [http://explainxkcd.com front page], or a website wanting to show an explanation of a comic that is always up-to-date and correct, etc.
<nowiki>*</nowiki> I wrote view, but it could also be edit.
--[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:This could be done with json responses to individual pages including the current explanation for that comic. Similar to how the xkcd json api works now. I don't know if that is feasible in php though. I'm currently on a RoR craze though, so maybe there's an easier and less over-engineered solution I don't know about. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 17:18, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
::A cheap way out would be to have PHP page access the SQL DB and yank the necessary text from there. This could be useful for a naitive mobile app. Also, this site needs a mobile version. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
== New Edit Explanation Image/Link (Introduced 9/22/12) ==
Some initial thoughts.
*Will this be a permanent part of each comic? I would not be in favor of each comic in the archives having this disclaimer/large repetitive image as part of the explanation. Instead, can this just be part of the most recent comic?
*The other issue I have is that main page now has one direct link to editing the explanation (the thing least done by users) and none to editing discussion/adding comments (the thing most done by users). I see that the talk page is now displayed on the main page, which I think is a good thing, but I hope that someone can also get the 'add a comment' link on the main page as well.
*In the end I feel there should be links for editing the explanation and adding comments/discussion on the main page and that these links should be proportional in size to their traffic by users (re the link for adding to the discussion should be equal to or larger than the link for the explanation).
--[[User:Shine|Shine]] ([[User talk:Shine|talk]]) 14:26, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
:A few pointers about that:
:* I introduced the "edit explanation" image/link below the explanation I gave for today's comic, mainly because I felt what I had written ''was'' indeed incomplete (I was lacking an explanation for the "[has only one review]" part and for the title text). So in a way that was some sort of calling for help with the explanation. And once done I thought it was a good idea to have a highly visible "edit" link for the latest comic explanation on the main page (''"so that people seeing something they could add would feel invited to do so (wiki style). In my opinion this would be a good way to improve the quality of the user-generated explanations"'', as I said [[Talk:Main Page#Direct link to latest comic|here]]).
:* Later on, I added the "may be incorrect" notion in the banner, because I saw that people having different explanations only mentioned them in the comments, instead of editing my explanation (which after all could be wrong). So I fear there's some sort of "we don't touch what has been done" effect, where the first explanation given will be more likely to stick and not be corrected by readers who are not used to the idea that they can edit it (actually, if someone has a better explanation than the one I put, I'd be happy to see it corrected!).
:* That edit banner should not be a permanent part of each comic. My opinion is that it should stay on the latest comic's page (even when the explanation could be considered complete) until there is a new comic, in order to invite as much people as possible to share their explanation; and it should also, of course, be on the comic pages for which the explanation is considered incomplete, for instance [[51: Malaria|this]] (empty) or [[46: Secrets|that]] (partial only).
:* It would be nice indeed to have also, on the main page, a direct link to add a comment (exactly like the one on [[1098: Star Ratings|the comic page]]), but that is currently not feasible automatically. This is one of the reasons why I suggested an other way to handle the latest comic (see [[#Latest comic handling]] above), which I actually still think would be better, and in particular which would allow to do all that (including the edit banner) nicely automatically from the main page.
:[[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 15:20, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
==Notice templates==
I would like to suggest a template for a notice saying "this page requires copy editing," and one saying "this page may be unclear in its meaning," or something of the sort for each. the comic posted on 8/22/12 could use both of these. (unsigned comment by [[User:Dave|Dave]]  19:11, 23 August 2012‎ )
:I agree. I discussed this matter with [[User:Blaisepascal]] in respect of his template {{tl|Incomplete}} on its talk page. I have updated that template to {{tl|Incomplete/beta1}} and created {{tl|ambox}} as a generic message box ''xkcd''-style where other message templates can be created and color coded like on wikipedia, such as the ones you suggest.
:Unfortunately, because of the image scaling issues, the ambox template displays two broken images at the moment which we agreed shouldn't replace the existing template until the images are unbroken. I'm not sure anyone is working on the image scaling problem, is one of the issues. In any event, I also don't see the point in creating other notice templates until the issue is fixed and we can use the standardized template. I'm really hoping someone is working on the image scaling problem... [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 16:36, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
== Denoting comic "series" ==
There are several "series" of comics.  Is there a better/prefered way of notating these?  Currently I have been creating a "Category:Series Name", e.g. (not all of these exist yet)
* [Category:Comics featuring Barrel Boy](1-5) (Should this be just "Barrel Boy"?)
* [Category:Journal](1-5)
* [Category:The Race](1-5)
* [Category:My Hobby](random)
* [Category:1337](1-5)
* [Category:Choices](1-5)
* [Category:Parody Week](5 in this "series", but others fit the genre)
* [Category:Red Spiders](4 in this "genre", 2 explicitly numbered)
* [Category:Secretary](1-5)
* [Category:Five-Minute Comics](1-3)
* [Category: Guest Week](5 comics, but not exactly a "series").
I usually also create a REDIRECT of "Series Name" to "Category: Series Name"(breaks for "Journal", as it is also a comic title.
Should we have another meta-category for series comics? What about a [Series:Series Name] "category"? or does that break wiki? --[[User:Bpothier|B. P.]] ([[User talk:Bpothier|talk]]) 23:33, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
== Categories for Proposals Page ==
Maybe just simply two categories, resolved and unresolved? --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
Or stickers that say Open/Closed. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
== Moving the Wiki {{done|Closed}}==
What if explainxkcd.com/wiki was move to explainxkcd.com and explainxkcd.com would be moved to explainxkcd.com/blog? --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
+1 (44)
-1 (0)
: That's my plan long term.  That might make a lot of things like shortURL possible.  Just have to get some time to get it sorted out. --[[User:Jeff|Jeff]] ([[User talk:Jeff|talk]]) 19:58, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
<hr />
Sorry if your votes don't appear immediately. I will have them update automatically soon. Hopefully. And if you clicked my signature wanting to +1 this page, sorry for the confusion. DanB and Lcarsos, your +1's have been added to the count. --[[User:Grep|grep]]:[[User_talk:Grep|talk]]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=p&f=ex_grep applaud]:[http://arthurmigdal.com/vote/vote.php?a=c&f=ex_grep smite]
:+1 from me. --[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 14:36, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
:+1 as well. I keep hitting the blog when I mean to go to the wiki. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 15:00, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
== Chart type comics ==
Some comics (circuit diagram, US states,eyes sights, among others) are in a characteristic chart format- where it is all based around a chart of some kind or the other. Should we have a separate template for them, for the type of comics?
And somebody should actually create all the pages in the required format without explanations, so that other users can fill on the explanation. I can give explanations, but need somebody to make the pages first
[[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 17:05, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
:All the images have been uploaded, and a template exists at [[User:Blaisepascal/newcomictemplate]] that can be copied/pasted into a new comic page that just needs to be filled in.  [[User:Lcarsos]] has written a [[User:Lcarsos#Ruby_importer_script|Ruby importer script]] that will create an almost-ready-to-upload page for you.  All you need to do is fill in the explanation, proof-read, and add useful Wiki links.  You don't need special privileges to create new pages.
:Personally, I find comic pages devoid of explanation counter to the intent of this site, and I try not to create them.  If I put up a page, I try to make sure it has an explanation. [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 18:22, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
:I agree with Blaisepascal. If a comic does not have an explanation its page should not exist so that it is easy to tell how much work there is left to be done. If suddenly all the pages are created, but none of them have explanations, a passing user won't know that there is still work to be done, and potentially won't pitch in to help complete the site.
:As far as charts go, be sure to tag them with [[:Category:Comics with charts]] and I like to change the transcript into a wiki table format. Of course, if the page doesn't have a transcript section then be sure you get the transcript from xkcd's json api (There is information about how to work it in [[explain xkcd:Community portal/Coordination#Issue dates]], as well as my [[User:Lcarsos#Ruby Importer scipt|Ruby script]] pulls in the transcript if it exists. You're still on your own to get the explanation from the blog (I'm working on that)).
:[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 18:57, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
== New Categories ==
(cut from Chart Type Comics section above, as seems new topic) [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 00:14, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Ok. Also, add a new section for proposing templates. We can have a very varied range of templates, like 'Comics with Black Hat', 'Comics with Raptor reference' etc... That will provide a useful ground for comparision of the most common themes [[User:TheOriginalSoni|TheOriginalSoni]] ([[User talk:TheOriginalSoni|talk]]) 16:44, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
:From context, I assume that by "templates", you mean "categories"?  [[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 18:00, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
:I think you'd benefit from taking a gander at [[:Category:Comics by featured characters]] and [[:Category:Comics by topic]]. I think we're still debating what to do about comics with actual people in them. But that will get you a good start. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 21:55, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
:: I'd be okay with creating a [[:Category:Comics featuring real people]] and including sub-categories for Cory Doctorow, the Firefly cast, RMS, Ron Paul, and other recurring real-life people. 
:: But then, my general philosophy is more links, more pages, more explanation the better.  One-shot fictional characters (like ponytail-Sarah in [[84: National Language]]) probably don't need their own category/page, though.[[User:Blaisepascal|Blaisepascal]] ([[User talk:Blaisepascal|talk]]) 02:06, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
:::I really like that idea. I too am of the more categories tribe, but I prefer them to be properly nested. I want to try my hand at creating categories let me see if I can do this. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 00:54, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
::::Okay, the beginnings are in place. Though I used [[:Category:Comics featuring real people]] as most comics that reference these people, in fact, feature them. I've also created a [[Playpen balls]] category under [[:Category:Comics by topic]] as it seems to me that it's referenced enough that it's necessary.
::::Question: Should we mirror Featured Characters by also having a page for each character and a Category:Real people, or will the Category pages be good enough?
::::The categories are going to get/are getting crowded with all the categories, is there a better way to represent them rather than a list? I'm thinking something that looks like [[:Template:navbox-characters]] except it needs to maintain the link on highlighted items, and it needs to be capable of multiple highlights. I think it would need sections for Featured Characters, Real people, Series (Barrel boy, Secretary, The Race), and Recurring Topics. What I mean by multiple highlights is, if they exist in that comic, i.e. if a comic features Black Hat, Cueball, Cory Doctorow, and Playpen balls, all of those should be highlighted.
::::[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 02:37, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
It looks like a good time to resurrect this topic. So, If you are going to categorize pages into a category that doesn't exist yet. MAKE SURE that you create the category page, don't just let it be a red link. That looks so sloppy. While on the subject of sloppy, Alphabetize by type the categories on the comic page. I go: Main characters, minor characters, real people, topics, series.
My personal requirements for making a category:
*For new topics
**For new topics, must be the central topic of ''at least'' two comics, with a few more tangentially related.
**It should be something that someone reads and goes "I wonder if there are more comics about this?" It is not simply creating a tag cloud for a post on a blog. That metaphor is gone. These are categories, like sections in an index to a book, or rather an ''encyclopedia''.
**A perfect example of this is [[User:Bpothier|Bpothier]]'s introduction of [[:Category:Comics with color]]. I've often wanted a list of all xkcds to date that have color on them. You'll know you've hit on something when another editor starts going through the pages and adding them to the new category.
*For new recurring characters
**They must recur. This seems obvious, but Adrian Lamo (for example, {{Wiktionary|AFAIK}}), only appears in [[1337: Part 3]]. This is a useless category if there are no other comics he appears in. It only goes to clutter up other, well populated categories.
*For other new categories
**You better have a damn solid case for why you have added a category that wasn't a sub-category of [[:Category:Comics by topic]] or [[:Category:Comic series]]. ''And if you do'', '''be polite''' and present it on the community portal so that the circling editors don't come in like brain-dead vultures to tear apart and re-parent your new category.
It is brain dead easy to create a page (spam bots do it all the time). It is much more complicated to get a page deleted by an admin once it has been created. You can tag it [[:Category:Pages to delete]], but non-spam pages marked this aren't often cleaned out. What I'm trying to say here is, be judicious in picking the names of pages you want to create. It's a pain to have to move Comics featuring Barrel Boy into a [[Barrel]] category.
Also, categorizing a page as something because of the explanation is not ok. These categories are here to group comics together, not as a general tag cloud for the wiki.
'''TL;DR:''' When creating a new category, create the goddamn category page (red links icky) and have ''at least'' 2 pages in the category. For big changes come here and ask first. [http://dontbeadickday.com/ Wil Wheaton says: "Don't be a dick!"]
Questions, comments, improvements, pies to the face accepted. Being-non-useful/criticism-with-intent-to-destroy is rude.
[[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 21:28, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
:No, Lcarsos, don't hold back; please tell us what you really think! ;-)  All kidding aside, these suggestions seem really pretty good.  There may be some subjectivity in terms of what constitutes contributing to a tag cloud vs the categorization you mention here.  But as you point out, that understanding is likely to evolve: if one creates a category that somebody else runs with it, that's a pretty good indicator.  I'm glad this categorization has been going on as it has; were it not for my ''de facto'' role as ''Grim Spammer-Reaper''  I'd be in there helping sort and categorize 'em all, too.  So huge thanks! -- [[User:IronyChef|IronyChef]] ([[User talk:IronyChef|talk]]) 05:45, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
::Just to clarify, I assume what you mean by "''Alphabetize by type the categories on the comic page. I go: Main characters, minor characters, real people, topics, series.''" is that one should ''group'' categories by type, and then alphabetize within them? If that's the case, I don't see any major issue with that; that said, I tend to add categories by deemed 'importance', i.e. I would add comics featuring Cueball before comics featuring Black Hat or Beret Guy just because Cueball is the central character in the series. Similarly, I would also reorder so that "series" comes before topic, if not before characters as well. The first category a "My Hobby" comic comes into, in my mind, is the "My Hobby" category. Only then is it a comic that happens to feature Cueball, or happens to be on the topic of computers. That's my personal view of it. The only reason I would keep characters first is because it's the most common category type a comic will fall into. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 14:26, 14 September 2012 (UTC)
== Randall in Comics ==
In comic 541 (TED Talk), Randall uses a Cueball character to refer to himself. How should this be included in the Wiki? Cited: http://xkcd.com/541/ AWiseGuy (talk) 21:50, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
:I think, since he also seems to appear as himself in [[1057: Klout]] it would be appropriate to create a [[:Category:Comics featuring Randall Munroe]] and parent it to [[:Category:Comics featuring real people]]. I'll let you do that. [[User:Lcarsos|lcarsos]] ([[User talk:Lcarsos|talk]]) 22:51, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
== Characters appearing only by name. ==
I've noticed that in several comics, known and named characters appear by name only without any physical appearance. Off the top of my head, I can think of Miss Lenhart (who actually appears twice by name before making her first real appearance: http://xkcd.com/135/ and in http://xkcd.com/416/) and Rob in comic 1102. I think these should be included as appearances, or under some other related but separate category, because they do provide character development. Thoughts on this? [[User:AWiseGuy|AWiseGuy]] ([[User talk:AWiseGuy|talk]]) 19:51, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
:I consider references to be apperances. Anyone interested in reading all comics relating to that character or looking for a specific comic featuring that character might be remmebering one where it was a mention by name, not by apperance, and they should be included in the categories for ease of reference, IMO. [[User:TheHYPO|TheHYPO]] ([[User talk:TheHYPO|talk]]) 20:13, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
== Also explain cartoons from the XKCD book? ==
As many of you surely know, many comics from the main site were featured in the book xkcd: volume 0. Some of them where altered or had extra explanations. Moreover, there where quite a few riddles and new comics in the book, which should be explained here, too. The forums did a great job on solving the great big riddles which lead to the legendary "official" XKCD-meetup with Randall. --[[Special:Contributions/|]] 09:37, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
:Oops, for got to log in, this suggestion came from me: [[User:Gefrierbrand|Gefrierbrand]] ([[User talk:Gefrierbrand|talk]]) 09:48, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
== Just add 'explain' before the 'xkcd.com' ==
You know how you there are services like [http://www.youtuberepeat.com YouTube Repeat] which let you go to the corresponding part of their site by just adding `repeat` before the `.com` of the YouTube video URL?
Likewise, let us just add `explain` before the `xkcd.com` part in any comic URL and let it redirect us to the appropriate wiki post. For example: `explainxkcd.com/1000` would redirect to `http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=1000`. I think since the site is based on PHP, it'd be very easy to just send a 301 Redirect header along.
This will be of immense comfort and will probably see me and others using ExplainXKCD.com a lot mre ! Happy reading :)
{{unsigned|YatharthROCK|15:17, 16 September 2012}}
:In a way, that's the plan... per [[#Moving the Wiki ✓ Closed|#Moving the Wiki]] above, the `/wiki` part would disappear, and with shortURL at the same time (mentioned there and at other places as well), the `index.php?title=` would disappear as well. Therefore, explainxkcd.com/1000 would get you the [[1000]] page, which itself redirects to the explanation of the comic ([[1000: 1000 Comics]]). So I guess the only issue is: when will this be done?... - [[User:Cos|Cos]] ([[User talk:Cos|talk]]) 10:38, 17 September 2012 (UTC)

Revision as of 19:28, 20 September 2012

I'll admit I was being kind of an ass with this one. Even after making this comic I releizad that it was only one woman who laughed at me, and I was making some unfair generalizations. I don't know why I didn't just say so in the above comments. Maybe I was afraid of muddying the narrative. Maybe it was one in the morning, and I was too tired to change anything. Maybe I just wanted to admit that sometimes I think this way, even though it's not right.Anyway, someone called me out on this, and they were right, so I'm apologizing.