Editing Talk:1379: 4.5 Degrees
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:While it is true that we have build more coal plants, the majority part that replace the nuclear power is from renewable energy, see [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strommix#mediaviewer/Datei:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg diagram] on wikipedia. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.89|141.101.75.89]] 15:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | :While it is true that we have build more coal plants, the majority part that replace the nuclear power is from renewable energy, see [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strommix#mediaviewer/Datei:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg diagram] on wikipedia. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.75.89|141.101.75.89]] 15:51, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
:: ... note that burning biomass, while renewable, also adds CO2. Not speaking about oil. You shouldn't be closing nuclear plants, you should be closing coal ones if you have exceed energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | :: ... note that burning biomass, while renewable, also adds CO2. Not speaking about oil. You shouldn't be closing nuclear plants, you should be closing coal ones if you have exceed energy. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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Well, ''this'' seems like a topic that could generate heated comments. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.9|108.162.208.9]] 10:09, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | Well, ''this'' seems like a topic that could generate heated comments. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.208.9|108.162.208.9]] 10:09, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
Would anyone care to comment on the +200 meter sea rise? I googled "how much would sea level rise" a bit, and I seem to bump into 60 to 70 meters repeatedly for all glaciers melting. I found nothing direct from IPCC. I wonder if Randall really has another view on this. {{unsigned ip|108.162.254.45}} | Would anyone care to comment on the +200 meter sea rise? I googled "how much would sea level rise" a bit, and I seem to bump into 60 to 70 meters repeatedly for all glaciers melting. I found nothing direct from IPCC. I wonder if Randall really has another view on this. {{unsigned ip|108.162.254.45}} | ||
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:I hope the explanation isn't that he made a meter/feet mistake. [[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 13:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | :I hope the explanation isn't that he made a meter/feet mistake. [[Special:Contributions/103.22.201.239|103.22.201.239]] 13:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
::I would assert that he rounded for a clean read for a relative scale. Also, the '+' denotes the likelihood of a larger actual amount. {{unsigned ip|108.162.217.41}} | ::I would assert that he rounded for a clean read for a relative scale. Also, the '+' denotes the likelihood of a larger actual amount. {{unsigned ip|108.162.217.41}} | ||
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:::::Having just re-read the explanation after posting my comment, I can see that the article attempts to do just that. But the link provided says 110 to 770 <b>mm</b>. Isn't the millimeters? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 15:44, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | :::::Having just re-read the explanation after posting my comment, I can see that the article attempts to do just that. But the link provided says 110 to 770 <b>mm</b>. Isn't the millimeters? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 15:44, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
:::::But the sea level ''would'' rise more than 60m if the expansion of the sea is taken into account. If the earth became as hot as the graph indicates, then logically the seas would expand considerably. [[User:Calebxy|Calebxy]] ([[User talk:Calebxy|talk]]) 16:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | :::::But the sea level ''would'' rise more than 60m if the expansion of the sea is taken into account. If the earth became as hot as the graph indicates, then logically the seas would expand considerably. [[User:Calebxy|Calebxy]] ([[User talk:Calebxy|talk]]) 16:04, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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:Cretaceous sea levels seem to have been that high, but this tends to be attributed to the shape of the ocean basins, in particular the mid-ocean ridges, rather than to the temperature. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 17:01, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | :Cretaceous sea levels seem to have been that high, but this tends to be attributed to the shape of the ocean basins, in particular the mid-ocean ridges, rather than to the temperature. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.35|108.162.219.35]] 17:01, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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:Randall is a scientist. He follows scientific consensus. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 20:03, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | :Randall is a scientist. He follows scientific consensus. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 20:03, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
::Randall is a comic artist. While he's a really smart guy, he popularizes science, he doesn't do the experiments himself.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 19:28, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ::Randall is a comic artist. While he's a really smart guy, he popularizes science, he doesn't do the experiments himself.[[User:Seebert|Seebert]] ([[User talk:Seebert|talk]]) 19:28, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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::There is nothing scientific about following consensus. {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.86}} | ::There is nothing scientific about following consensus. {{unsigned ip|108.162.215.86}} | ||
:::Of course there is... When 99% of climatologists are reasonably certain (which means "very very sure" for non-scientists) that there is Global Warning and that the primary cause is us (humanity greenhouse gas emissions), I wouldn't say that AGW has been "debunked" and that there is nothing scientific in following this consensus (after having made sure of its existence by reading diverse peer-reviewed studies of the field) ! You may have an agenda to defend but could you at least try to make some sense, please. Note that this doesn't mean that the current political propositions are the right way to go about it and that this comic doesn't say anything about that. [[User:Jedaï|Jedaï]] ([[User talk:Jedaï|talk]]) 21:47, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | :::Of course there is... When 99% of climatologists are reasonably certain (which means "very very sure" for non-scientists) that there is Global Warning and that the primary cause is us (humanity greenhouse gas emissions), I wouldn't say that AGW has been "debunked" and that there is nothing scientific in following this consensus (after having made sure of its existence by reading diverse peer-reviewed studies of the field) ! You may have an agenda to defend but could you at least try to make some sense, please. Note that this doesn't mean that the current political propositions are the right way to go about it and that this comic doesn't say anything about that. [[User:Jedaï|Jedaï]] ([[User talk:Jedaï|talk]]) 21:47, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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::::There really ISN'T anything scientific about following consensus. Correlation is not causation. The 99% figure will be scientifically relevant if it will be produced by every scientist independently proving it, not by consensus. And even then ... 100% scientists though time is same everywhere ... then Einstein came with theory and models ... and THEN the models were verified. By Sir Arthur Eddington four years later. THAT made Einstein famous. We don't really have the same kind of proof for AGW. We have lot of data which has been tampered with or cherry-picked, even the scientists can't be sure what to believe. What we DO have proof for is that climate is changing (although some of those changes are LOWERING of temperature). | ::::There really ISN'T anything scientific about following consensus. Correlation is not causation. The 99% figure will be scientifically relevant if it will be produced by every scientist independently proving it, not by consensus. And even then ... 100% scientists though time is same everywhere ... then Einstein came with theory and models ... and THEN the models were verified. By Sir Arthur Eddington four years later. THAT made Einstein famous. We don't really have the same kind of proof for AGW. We have lot of data which has been tampered with or cherry-picked, even the scientists can't be sure what to believe. What we DO have proof for is that climate is changing (although some of those changes are LOWERING of temperature). | ||
::::And about the political propositions ... most of them fail to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions itself, not speaking about global temperature - but their economic effect would be huge. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ::::And about the political propositions ... most of them fail to reduce the greenhouse gas emissions itself, not speaking about global temperature - but their economic effect would be huge. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 10:02, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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I *think* (haven't confirmed) that the 200 m figure is the difference between the peak of the last ice age (sea level low—"-1 IAU" in the strip) and if everything melted. We've already come up 140 m, so we can't go up 200 m from here. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.86|108.162.215.86]] 20:16, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | I *think* (haven't confirmed) that the 200 m figure is the difference between the peak of the last ice age (sea level low—"-1 IAU" in the strip) and if everything melted. We've already come up 140 m, so we can't go up 200 m from here. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.215.86|108.162.215.86]] 20:16, 9 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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:It's hyperbole. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 05:46, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | :It's hyperbole. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.238.134|108.162.238.134]] 05:46, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
::Not completely. It's refering to a specific time, the ceretaceous period. When there where forests above 85 degrees in both north and south poles. The forests where temperate though, so palm trees are hyperbole. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.217|141.101.80.217]] 12:18, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ::Not completely. It's refering to a specific time, the ceretaceous period. When there where forests above 85 degrees in both north and south poles. The forests where temperate though, so palm trees are hyperbole. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.80.217|141.101.80.217]] 12:18, 10 June 2014 (UTC) | ||
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− | Independent of everything else, I'm having a tough time reconciling the fact that sea level was apparently 6m or more higher during the Roman era. E.g. the roman settlements and their harbors in places like Caister and Burgh Castle in Norfolk, England? I'm not aware that England has risen 6m. Seems to me that if see levels were to rise as much as 6m we'd just be back to where things were 1600-1700 years ago. | + | Independent of everything else, I'm having a tough time reconciling the fact that sea level was apparently 6m or more higher during the Roman era. E.g. the roman settlements and their harbors in places like Caister and Burgh Castle in Norfolk, England? I'm not aware that England has risen 6m. Seems to me that if see levels were to rise as much as 6m we'd just be back to where things were 1600-1700 years ago. |
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