Editing Talk:1414: Writing Skills

Scoring higher on grammar and spelling tests could be related to constantly using the English language - however I think an opportunity was missed with this one: the correlation between kids who have access to texting devices and kids who have access to good schooling and tutoring.


Is the double "writing" at the beginning of the title text a typo, or has it a meaning? (Non-native english here, so I probably missed something). [[Special:Contributions/108.162.229.156|108.162.229.156]] 08:13, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
:As a native english speaker, I don't see any reason why it is double. Either a typo, or maybe a joke on sloppy writing skills.. --[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 08:16, 29 August 2014 (UTC)


I have to take issue with Randall on the alt-text, they don't use the written word so much as the ''typed'' word -- <u>penmanship</u>, which was already on the wane when I was in school 25+ years ago, is no longer being taught, or so I've been told by young people coming in to work. Surprisingly, neither are kids being taught to touch-type! The new kids coming to the job are constantly surprised that I can type without looking at the screen or keyboard, not to mention my typing speed! Additionally, composition beyond the sentence level is simply abysmal nowadays; paragraph and essay structure are simply no longer being taught. I myself only got one class in it during my high school sophomore year in 1984/5 -- and the administration eliminated it even before I graduated. In short, while kids are great at writing sentences nowadays, the ability to write coherent longer communications, and yes, handwriting too; despite their being in increased use in today's workplace, are simply things that young people are arriving unequipped with. [[User:Elipongo|Elipongo]] ([[User talk:Elipongo|talk]]) 08:53, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

: "+1"/"Like" for your comprehensive writing style -- however Randall is not concluding anything in in the alt-text but merely proposes and experiment and a method to to conduct such with an expected observation and outcome for verification of such experiment.  That is an entirely scientific and objective approach to a problem and hardly something which one can take issue with.  [[User:Spongebog|Spongebog]] ([[User talk:Spongebog|talk]]) 09:55, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

:I wouldn't miss handwriting, but the fact they don't teach touch-type is alarming. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:06, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

::With computers in abundance in childrens lives (and hence plenty of practice), I would have thought that actively teaching typing is not that important. Again its a quantity vs quality balance. Some careers would certainly benefit from faster and more accurate typing skills than others (e.g A secretary), but I don't feel someone is necessarily a poor typist because they don't touch-type correctly.--[[User:Pudder|Pudder]] ([[User talk:Pudder|talk]]) 12:30, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm from an older generation that did receive education in writing, composition, grammar etc. We all began with simple "The cat sat on the mat" sentences when young, and gradually improved our skills by practising progressively more difficult tasks. However the key issues were that our output was both judged and directed. Our teachers assessed our writing, pointed out the errors (oh, did they point out the errors!), told us what was 'right', and then set us to writing longer, more complex subjects and structures. The problem with txtspk is that it is unjudged and undirected. I think Randall's idea that quantity will eventually overcome mediocrity is getting too close to the monkeys producing Shakespeare. Is it possible? Yes. Is it probable? No. --[[User:KAM|KAM]] ([[User talk:KAM|talk]]) 10:15, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

:I think kids can judge perfectly fine. But yes, txtspk can help with practice on some level of difficulty but doesn't allow to continue higher. They need to move to more advanced methods ... like flame wars. And about pointing errors? You never saw online argument where one side tried to undermine opponent by pointing out grammatic mistakes in their post? -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 11:06, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

::I cannot agree with you because I think you should have used "an", "any" or the plural “arguments" in "You never saw online argument ...". Also, you made me search for the right use of "grammatic" versus "grammatical". ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.92.223|141.101.92.223]] 14:26, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Ironically, "Ulysses" from James Joyce is also considered one of the worst and most boring books in human history, topping many lists of books you can't get past the first page. Many people joke that Marilyn Monroe was one of the few persons that ever read the book right by starting from the end. -- [[Special:Contributions/141.101.70.139|141.101.70.139]] 13:09, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Is anyone familiar with a recent report that might have lead to this comic? There is no specific reference given in the comic. I think most of the reports on this topic were from Beverly Plester of Coventry University between 2006 and 2011. I can't find much of anything since then... --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.169|108.162.216.169]] 14:32, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-If you think about it, Scooby-Doo does the exact same thing for kids, but with the Scientific Method. While viewers may not be capable of running a rigorous experiment, they'll be really familiar with gathering evidence to reveal new knowledge. [[User:CharlesT|CharlesT]] 23:36, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
+Scoring higher on grammar and spelling tests could be related to constantly using the English language - however I think an opportunity was missed with this one: the correlation between kids who have access to texting devices and kids who have access to good schooling and tutoring.
-Scoring higher on grammar and spelling tests could be related to constantly using the English language - however I think an opportunity was missed with this one: the correlation between kids who have access to texting devices and kids who have access to good schooling and tutoring. {{unsigned|Slippyshoe}}
@@ Line 22: / Line 19: @@
 ::I cannot agree with you because I think you should have used "an", "any" or the plural “arguments" in "You never saw online argument ...". Also, you made me search for the right use of "grammatic" versus "grammatical". ;) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.92.223|141.101.92.223]] 14:26, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
-::: It's obvious to me that you degenerates were both part of the inspiration for Godwin's Law [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 11:55, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
 Ironically, "Ulysses" from James Joyce is also considered one of the worst and most boring books in human history, topping many lists of books you can't get past the first page. Many people joke that Marilyn Monroe was one of the few persons that ever read the book right by starting from the end. -- [[Special:Contributions/141.101.70.139|141.101.70.139]] 13:09, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
 Is anyone familiar with a recent report that might have lead to this comic? There is no specific reference given in the comic. I think most of the reports on this topic were from Beverly Plester of Coventry University between 2006 and 2011. I can't find much of anything since then... --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.169|108.162.216.169]] 14:32, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
-:[http://www.editlib.org/p/131080/ Analysis of Research on the Effects of Texting and Tweeting on Literacy — 2014] should be a good starting point but it's behind a paywall.  [http://www.elixirpublishers.com/articles/1360068938_55%20(2013)%2012884-12890.pdf The Impact of Texting/SMS Language on Academic Writing of Students-What do we need to panic about? — Pakistan, 2013] and [http://research.uic.edu.ph/ojs/index.php/arete/article/download/105/30 The Relationship of SMS to the Writing Proficiency of the First Year Education Students of the University of the Immaculate Conception — Philipines, 2013] are both recent studies generally concluding punctuation use is bad but SMS is not to blame; I'd say both have too little data to support any wide conclusion. [[User:Cben|Cben]] ([[User talk:Cben|talk]]) 00:08, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
-With the growing influence of voice recognition interfaces, will some folks someday be decrying the shift to abbreviated forms of speech, and the lack of attention to teaching writing or using GUI interfaces?  And, as Tim O'Reilly notes, will others celebrate the return to something like the "command line" of old, highly suitable to extensibility and programming via macros, creation of new nouns and verbs, etc?  See [http://anomaly.org/wade/blog/2013/12/why_textual_user_interfaces_ar.html Programmer Musings: Why Textual User Interfaces are Better than Graphic User Interfaces] and [http://slashdot.org/story/206085?nobeta=1 At Home with Tim O'Reilly (Videos 1 and 2 of 6) - Slashdot] (click below the videos to see the transcript, and note that it doesn't work in their beta interface).  [[User:Nealmcb|Nealmcb]] ([[User talk:Nealmcb|talk]]) 15:25, 29 August 2014 (UTC)
-A nice thing about texting is that you learn pretty quickly about the ambiguities that make punctuation and grammar necessary in the first place. ("I saw a man eating shark today." "At SeaWorld?" "No, at a restaurant.") [[User:Promethean|Promethean]] ([[User talk:Promethean|talk]]) 23:41, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
-Except people who play catch ''aim'' at things. [[Special:Contributions/173.245.52.215|173.245.52.215]] 02:21, 31 August 2014 (UTC)
-It may be true that grammar is essentially the language we use to talk about language. Nonetheless, you still need to master this sub-language. Lack of understanding of grammar impedes basic understanding - who is the actor in this sentence? What is the action? Who did what to who? What is this idea you are trying to communicate? I don't care about split infinitives or poorly placed commas. Rather, it's the old "eats shoots and leaves" jokes that remain salient. If you haven't mastered basic grammar when, for example, [https://writemyessay.pro writing an essay], nobody knows what you're talking about on a fundamental level. So, it's not merely terminology (adverb! gerund!) It is a necessary set of rules. [[User:Merrill|Merrill]] ([[User talk:Merrill|talk]]) 03:16, 01 August 2018 (GMT-5)
-:This would imply that writers like, say, Homer or Lady Murasaki, who never studied grammar, were incompetent. This is incorrect. One can master the rules without knowing the specific vocabulary and taxonomy of linguistics. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 14:26, 10 December 2021 (UTC)