Editing Talk:1618: Cold Medicine

I would question the assertion re: oxymetazoline having no decongestant effect. Oxymetazoline is the active component of Afrin and similar nasal sprays. Like pseudoephedrine, it is an adrenergic receptor agonist vasoconstrictor that is quite effective at shrinking swollen intranasal tissue (turbinates e.g.). Such swelling creates the sensation of a blocked nasal airway aka "stuffy nose" or "congestion". It works so well that people can become dependent on the sprays because stopping them causes "rebound congestion" aka rhinitis medicamentosa. Oxymetazoline may lack the bronchodilation/smooth muscle effects of pseudoephedrine (I'm not sure), but that's a separate issue.  [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.84|162.158.255.84]] 22:37, 27 January 2016 (UTC)

How hard would it actually be to turn street drugs back into cold medicine? [[User:Benjaminikuta|Benjaminikuta]] ([[User talk:Benjaminikuta|talk]]) 05:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

- I'm unsure on the actual scientific accuracy of this, given it is a fake paper, but http://heterodoxy.cc/meowdocs/pseudo/pseudosynth.pdf [[Special:Contributions/108.162.221.13|108.162.221.13]] 05:49, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

This is in reference to recent studies that have proven that Phenylephrine is no worse than a placebo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylephrine
http://www.annallergy.org/article/S1081-1206(10)60240-2/abstract
[[Special:Contributions/162.158.2.138|162.158.2.138]] 06:53, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

- I keep hearing about this Placebo. It seems like a very potent medicine that is good for everything. Where can you buy it? {{unsigned ip|162.158.90.213}}
:Just get anything that is labeled 'homeopathic'. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.153.101|162.158.153.101]] 10:55, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

:In more than 100 countries it is manufactured under the brand name {{w|Tic_Tac}} and available even in supermarkets. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

:The web site http://www.penisreductionpills.com/ openly admits to selling only placebos, perhaps you could try there? [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.148|199.27.130.148]] 21:04, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

-I don't know about the paper specifically, but by the principle of microscopic reversibility (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microscopic_reversibility), not only can you turn the products back into the reagents, you can do so using the exact same mechanisms. Chemical reactions are always going both ways, and they will tend towards the equilibrium from the higher concentration ~pure meth. That does not say anything about practicality, I am not versed in meth-synthesis, but maybe it involves a process with a product harder to acquire than pseudoerphine (maybe because it is useless and simply disposed of) which would be required as a reagent in this case. I don't know. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.195|162.158.91.195]] 00:29, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

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I don't think it's suggesting turning meth back to medicine. I think it's a reference to heroin and at least a handful(?) of other now-illegal drugs originally introduced purely as medicinal products. [[User:Xseo|Xseo]] ([[User talk:Xseo|talk]]) 12:13, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:- i respectfully disagree, i reckon its exactly suggesting that ... Need cold medicine so bad i would buy illegal drugs made from cold medicine and seek to reverse the process. Obviously not the most practical way of getting cold medicine ... but thats the joke.[[User:Plm-qaz snr|Plm-qaz snr]] ([[User talk:Plm-qaz snr|talk]]) 13:08, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
::I concur with Plm-qaz snr --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

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Codeine was originally a cough suppressant. It was and is the most effective and reliable cough medicine available and very safe in the usual quantities. You can't get it, though -- for an ordinary cough -- because some people like to use a lot of it for fun and sometimes get addicted to large quantities of it. You could synthesize it or an analogue of it from heroin or oxycodone about as safely as any kitchen chemistry because they share the same opium base. 

The principal cold medicines are cough suppressants (codeine is best -- other things work but much worse), decongestant (pseudoephedrine works great, phenylephrine is no more effective than a placebo), mild anti-inflammatories like ibuprofen, and antihistamines for anti-sneezing (there are many good ones based on Seldane like Claritin). Most people like to combine those at nighttime with a good mild tranquil sleep promoter -- I recommend whisky or rum. Note that pseudoephedrine is banned in some states of the USA such as Oregon. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.216.65|108.162.216.65]] 13:58, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

There are OTC cough suppressants, perhaps most notably dextromethorphan; cough drops and tea are also sometimes used for this.  You also forgot a category, expectorants (the most common OTC one being guaifenesin), which don't prevent coughing directly but are nonetheless good to take if you are coughing a lot because of stuff being in your lungs that shouldn't be.  (If you're coughing because of throat irritation, then an expectorant won't help with that, go for the cough drops and tea and maybe dextromethorphan.)

But yes, apart from various vapor therapies that superficially clean out mild nasal decongestion (menthol -- often found in cough drops -- is the most common, but e.g. hot pepper products can also work), the only over-the-counter decongestant that's any good at all against a head cold is pseudoephedrine, which you have to show ID to buy these days.    If Randall had a really bad head cold and was trying to treat it with the stuff you _don't_ have to show ID to buy, he'd have been miserable.  It's easy to imagine a person in that situation reaching the end of his rope and concluding that he needs the real stuff, regardless of what watch lists it might put him on.  (Though in practice, I doubt very seriously whether buying any normal quantity of the stuff could get you on a watch list.  They're watching for people buying the kinds of quantities you'd need if you were trying to run a meth lab, which even if you use several buyers and go to every drug store in town is still not really in the same volume category as what someone with a cold would normally be expected to buy.)
--Jonadab, 2015 Dec 22, 11:58pm EST

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I take the title text differently - that since buying pseudoephedrine-containing drugs legally in a larger than minimal quantity (e.g. to stockpile them at home to have them at hand when you need them) already makes you a criminal suspect with 100% certainty (because you have to show your ID), it may be safer to buy illegal drugs on the black market, where you have at least some chance of not being caught. As for turning meth back to PE - it is possible for sure, since all chemical processes are reversible in one way or another, but I am not versed enough in organic chemistry to say if it is easier or harder than the other way round. -- [[Special:Contributions/162.158.90.224|162.158.90.224]] 12:33, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:Burning is chemical process. Creating wood from ash is generally considered unpractical. -- [[User:Hkmaly|Hkmaly]] ([[User talk:Hkmaly|talk]]) 13:41, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, it is impractical. However, due to one of the fundamental principles of quantum mechanics being the fact that information can't be destroyed, only obfuscated, scatter, maybe even left out of reach, but never destroyed, all the information needed to turn the ash back into wood is still in the universe. All that is left to do is retrieve all that information and figure out a way by which everything can become uncombusted, and you have it turned back into wood. Sure, it would be easier to use the ash as fertilizer to help grow another tree, but it isn't impossible.[[User:Mulan15262|Mulan15262]] ([[User talk:Mulan15262|talk]]) 14:50, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

You'd have to reacquire and reassemble not just the ash, but the smoke and gases too.  [[User:Miamiclay|Miamiclay]] ([[User talk:Miamiclay|talk]]) 05:47, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
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Today I learned that you can make methamphetamine from Pseudoephedrine! [[Special:Contributions/188.114.106.173|188.114.106.173]] 18:34, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

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From the start of the pseudoephedrine/meth fiasco, the only thing I on my mind was "what a waste of perfectly good Sudafed!" [[User:Schiffy|<font color="000999">Schiffy</font>]] ([[User_talk:Schiffy|<font color="FF6600">Speak to me</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/Schiffy|<font color="FF0000">What I've done</font>]]) 02:09, 19 December 2015 (UTC)

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Is it worth mentioning that he  posted a comic relating to colds two weeks prior? ([[1612: Colds]]) Perhaps Randall is in a rather extended bout and at the point where buying meth to synthesise pseudo just seems like the logical thing to do. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.250.159|108.162.250.159]] 03:13, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
:Very much. I had already incorporated into the explanation that Cueball = Randall here, at least in the title text. So I will add your observation as another reason to believe this. Was wondering why no one else could see that it was Randall who had a cold. And now it seems like it is a rather long one. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

This is actually semi serious. When I have a cold, literally the only thing that works is pseudoephedrine. And Sudafed, which is the registered label for pseudoephedrine, now sells Sudafed without the pseudoephedrine. In a cold induced daze I have actually managed to buy the not pseudoephedrine Sudafed, and only realized my mistake several days later when the cold symptoms aren't going away. "Give me the stuff I need an id to buy" is a pretty reasonable response, although of course asking for one of everything is a bit over the top and includes things that aren't pseudoephedrine. {{unsigned ip|173.245.63.144}}
:This (as the comment above) also make a lot of sense for this comic. Will try to include it in the explanation- --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 18:56, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

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The explanation currently says "...who as anyone else is very likely to have a cold at this time of year (released in December)". I am about to edit this to be more region specific, because many parts of the world are hot in December (including Australia where I live) which means colds are uncommon at this time of year. [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 21:54, 20 December 2015 (UTC)
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In the United Kingdom at least one cough suppressant available OTC contains a small amount of morphine. {{unsigned ip|162.158.153.29}}
: You can also buy morphine OTC for an upset tummy, in the form "Kaolin and Morphine". [[User:Martin|Martin]] ([[User talk:Martin|talk]]) 22:59, 21 December 2015 (UTC)

Apologies if I've missed this exact take on the hovertext, in amongst the above, but ''my'' reading of it is that right now, where illegal drugs are unobtainable, legal drugs are converted into them (for fun and/or profit).  But the problems of getting the legal drugs are even ''greater'' (either because of the confusion, the pharmacy refusing to sell large amounts or just the threat of the watch-list) and so the illegal ones are more obtainable, in the hope of being back-converted into the desired 'legal' ones.

Also, there's also [http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35091242 this issue] about multiple packet designs just being the same thing, that happened recently.  There's ''possibly'' a link, but I'm not sure. Personally, I swear by placebos! [[Special:Contributions/162.158.152.227|162.158.152.227]] 00:04, 22 December 2015 (UTC)