Editing Talk:2889: Greenhouse Effect

::I contemplated doing so, but refrained, because I feared it would transform an explanation into a polemic. The main point of the comic, I argue, is that humans have known about global warming, and anthropogenic carbon dioxide's role in it, for far longer than most of today's narratives state, and, in an explanation, it is sufficient to point this out. Those with Bibles may find the ethical underpinnings for this comic and its message in the [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%209&version=NRSVUE ninth chapter of John], particularly v. 41: “If you were blind, you would not have sin. But now that you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains." For my part, I find the principal explanation for climate inaction (not just in the temperate zones, air-conditioning fans) in the concept of "personal advantage". I once estimated that, to bring per-capita energy use in the USA, anno 2014, down to the level current in 1957, that use (thanks to population increase) would have to correspond with energy usage in 1900. No aircraft, few cars, almost no electricity infrastructure and therefore nothing that depends on that infrastructure. I have not attempted to estimate what the energy usage would have to be to bring today's per-capita allotment to the level current in 1896; I suspect it would require the dismantling of the Industrial Revolution in its entirety. In token of this, I used to walk two miles each way to work. A co-worker saw this, patted me on the head, said "That's nice", and drove off, alone, in deir SUV. Oh ... the co-worker led a climate-change research lab. No one will willingly accept a reduction in standard of living, and, I argue, any attempt to force this will put authoritarian climate deniers at the head of government everywhere. Nor do I accept that [https://www.dude-n-dude.com/2020/08/23/kris-an-murphy-wunderwaffe/ <em>Wunderwaffe</em>] will save us ... and those concerned with "climate justice" may well ask who among us can afford such toys.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.33|108.162.245.33]] 16:18, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

::I contemplated doing so, but refrained, because I feared it would transform an explanation into a polemic. The main point of the comic, I argue, is that humans have known about global warming, and anthropogenic carbon dioxide's role in it, for far longer than most of today's narratives state, and, in an explanation, it is sufficient to point this out. Those with Bibles may find the ethical underpinnings for this comic and its message in the [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%209&version=NRSVUE ninth chapter of John], particularly v. 41: “If you were blind, you would not have sin. But now that you say, ‘We see,’ your sin remains." For my part, I find the principal explanation for climate inaction (not just in the temperate zones, air-conditioning fans) in the concept of "personal advantage". I once estimated that, to bring per-capita energy use in the USA, anno 2014, down to the level current in 1957, that use (thanks to population increase) would have to correspond with energy usage in 1900. No aircraft, few cars, almost no electricity infrastructure and therefore nothing that depends on that infrastructure. I have not attempted to estimate what the energy usage would have to be to bring today's per-capita allotment to the level current in 1896; I suspect it would require the dismantling of the Industrial Revolution in its entirety. In token of this, I used to walk two miles each way to work. A co-worker saw this, patted me on the head, said "That's nice", and drove off, alone, in deir SUV. Oh ... the co-worker led a climate-change research lab. No one will willingly accept a reduction in standard of living, and, I argue, any attempt to force this will put authoritarian climate deniers at the head of government everywhere. Nor do I accept that [https://www.dude-n-dude.com/2020/08/23/kris-an-murphy-wunderwaffe/ <em>Wunderwaffe</em>] will save us ... and those concerned with "climate justice" may well ask who among us can afford such toys.[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.33|108.162.245.33]] 16:18, 4 February 2024 (UTC)

:::Yes, that kept me from adding the point directly. It must be done ''very carefully''. Still, the title text - which quotes Arrhenius in a misleading context to make that point! - seems to bring up the question if climate change is just a "trifling" change in lifestyle ("warmer skies") or an existential threat (general assessment these days), so it feels like part of the explanation. @108.162.245.33: Climate justice is not so much about technology as it is about fair access to mitigation. You're asking if each US citizen could afford the time, effort and money for a change in polluting habits. But none of the people who are and will be dying of climate change can afford your and my current habits. We've got centuries of "right to exploit & consume" attitude / experience with exploitation to repair, which obviously requires a concerted effort, not just individual tweaking. xkcd's reach goes well into the most affected areas, I would like to see that taken into account. (e.g. I suspect middle-class urban India to be avid readers, and to be well aware that ACs won't work for a barely electrified slum district at +42°C, and that the problem isn't so much the lack of ACs, but the poverty of slums, and the +42°C) [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 10:17, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

:::Yes, that kept me from adding the point directly. It must be done ''very carefully''. Still, the title text - which quotes Arrhenius in a misleading context to make that point! - seems to bring up the question if climate change is just a "trifling" change in lifestyle ("warmer skies") or an existential threat (general assessment these days), so it feels like part of the explanation. @108.162.245.33: Climate justice is not so much about technology as it is about fair access to mitigation. You're asking if each US citizen could afford the time, effort and money for a change in polluting habits. But none of the people who are and will be dying of climate change can afford your and my current habits. We've got centuries of "right to exploit & consume" attitude / experience with exploitation to repair, which obviously requires a concerted effort, not just individual tweaking. xkcd's reach goes well into the most affected areas, I would like to see that taken into account. (e.g. I suspect middle-class urban India to be avid readers, and to be well aware that ACs won't work for a barely electrified slum district at +42°C, and that the problem isn't so much the lack of ACs, but the poverty of slums, and the +42°C) [[User:Transgalactic|Transgalactic]] ([[User talk:Transgalactic|talk]]) 10:17, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Arguably, it was Abraham Darby's invention of the coke fired blast furnace in 1709, that vastly increased iron production, was the real start of the industrial revolution and use of coal as a fuel. (It was actually banned in some places as being a dirty fuel for cooking and heating) Of course that would mess up the nearer to / further from dates that this series of comics use. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 09:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)

Arguably, it was Abraham Darby's invention of the coke fired blast furnace in 1709, that vastly increased iron production, was the real start of the industrial revolution and use of coal as a fuel. (It was actually banned in some places as being a dirty fuel for cooking and heating) Of course that would mess up the nearer to / further from dates that this series of comics use. [[User:RIIW - Ponder it|RIIW - Ponder it]] ([[User talk:RIIW - Ponder it|talk]]) 09:51, 3 February 2024 (UTC)