Editing Talk:1799: Bad Map Projection: Time Zones

{{notice|The [[what if?]] {{what if|154|Coast-to-Coast Coasting}} came out February 8th, at the same time as [[1796]]. This was noted yesterday in the last comics discussion. For the first time in a year with less than two weeks between releases --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 15 February 2017 (UTC)}}

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"Screw Hawaii and the rest of the Pacific!" [[User:Z|Z]] ([[User talk:Z|talk]]) 04:56, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

It is actually way less distorting than I expected [[Special:Contributions/141.101.104.239|141.101.104.239]] 06:38, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Aahhhh, why are Suriname and French Guiana switched? They have the same timezone ... [[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.22|162.158.150.22]] 06:52, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Can anyone explain why Russia has all the hills and valleys? East-west distortion I understand, but what is the reason for the north-south distortion? [[User:Nonnal|Nonnal]] ([[User talk:Nonnal|talk]]) 07:06, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

:I actually know this one - Russia has 11 timezones, but some of these form "islands" in the South of the country. From West to East, the North has: (+2 Kaliningrad), +3, +5, +7,+9, +10, +11, +12. Going West to East through the South adds back in +4 (Samara), +6 (Omsk), and +8 (Irkutsk), each corresponding to one of the "dips" in the projection. [[User:Atmarsden95|Atmarsden95]] ([[User talk:Atmarsden95|talk]]) 07:15, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Why is Morocco labeled as U.S. and the Sahrawi Republic as Morocco? [[Special:Contributions/141.101.88.88|141.101.88.88]] 07:24, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:That actually says "W.S", for Western Sahara, but either way I can't see a good reason for the inversion. Both are on UTC+0, and Morocco is on UTC+1 in summer, while WS doesn't use DST, apparently... So even if that was being taken into account, the countries are STILL the wrong way around. Possibly, this is related to the French Guiana/Suriname inversion. [[User:Atmarsden95|Atmarsden95]] ([[User talk:Atmarsden95|talk]]) 07:55, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

:And Western Sahara is the name used for the disputed area south of Marocco by the United Nations. The Sahrawi Republic have only limited recognition and does not control all of the disputed area. [[User:Pmakholm|Pmakholm]] ([[User talk:Pmakholm|talk]]) 07:59, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::The switch is just a mistake, maybe caused by a map not depicting Western Sahara.--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 09:06, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

It would be cool to see countries moving in and out of Daylight saving time. --[[Special:Contributions/141.101.69.69|141.101.69.69]] 07:56, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
: I'd like that, too. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:42, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Why did he use 6 colors? And do the colors code for something? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.202.58|162.158.202.58]] 08:06, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
: I think it's just for easier depiction without any further meaning. It's like in 850, I think... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 08:42, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Should we replace the comic image with a bigger version? I've already uploaded the image: http://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/File:bad_map_projection_time_zones_2x.png [[User:SirKitKat|sirKitKat]] ([[User talk:SirKitKat|talk]]) 09:02, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Should we compile a table of oddities in the map?--[[User:Pere prlpz|Pere prlpz]] ([[User talk:Pere prlpz|talk]]) 09:07, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
: I think yes. [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 09:12, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

So am I getting this correct? The map is made to be divided into timezones with perfect vertical borders and the countries are then distorted to fit perfectly within their timezones? Shouldn't Greenland then be "split" since it spreads from UTC-3 to UTC but is not actually using UTC-2? [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.118|162.158.92.118]] 10:41, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
: Yes. But actually there should be connections since these parrts of Greenland are no separate landmasses. But the connections should be infinitesimally thin (but not of thickness 0) to be accurate. However the style these connection are made imply that they're just connection and no actual landmasses, I think... [[User:Elektrizikekswerk|Elektrizikekswerk]] ([[User talk:Elektrizikekswerk|talk]]) 10:59, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:: I have added Greenland to the table, please feel free to provide a more coherent wording if necessary, english is not my native language :) [[Special:Contributions/162.158.92.118|162.158.92.118]] 12:42, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Only for understanding to the image sizes: The image tag uses the ''srcset'' feature and the browser decides if ''bad_map_projection_time_zones.png'' or ''bad_map_projection_time_zones_2x.png'' is shown. At this comic there is also a link to the large version. But the ''srcset'' feature is not new at this comic. Look at the source:
<pre>
<a href="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bad_map_projection_time_zones_2x.png">
  <img src="//imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bad_map_projection_time_zones.png" 
   title="This is probably the first projection in cartographic history that can be criticized for its disproportionate focus on Finland, Mongolia, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo." 
   alt="Bad Map Projection: Time Zones" 
   srcset="//imgs.xkcd.com/comics/bad_map_projection_time_zones_2x.png 2x"/>
</a>
</pre>
--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 12:21, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks for explaining that. So this is just the first time that the large version is linked from the normal sized version. Is that then the explanation for the 2x images appearing in [[Garden]]? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::The comic Garden is one of those rare dynamic comics. Each of them are different and in this case a javascript file called "linden.js" creates the picture. But the next one (https://xkcd.com/1664/) is like this one I wrote about. Go to that comic and use rigth-click -> view image (or whatever your browser says). If your display has a large resolution you will see the large picture, if not you will see the standard. But I don't know when this ''scrset'' feature was implemented for the first time. Early comics don't support this.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 14:55, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

The people from [[850]] should have a fun time with this.[[User:XFez|XFez]] ([[User talk:XFez|talk]]) 13:30, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

"Finland and the Baltic states look huge because they are the only countries using the UTC+2 Eastern Europe time." That's not really true: Romania and Bulgaria use that time zone too, as does Greece. [[User:Angew|Angew]] ([[User talk:Angew|talk]]) 07:20, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Does Randall know about this wiki? I would assume he does. Also how does a comic become completed? I have filled in explanations for comics that I think meet the missing criteria so am I allowed to remove the incomplete thingy or does an admin have to do that?[[User:XFez|XFez]] ([[User talk:XFez|talk]]) 13:38, 16 February 2017 (UTC)
:Hi [[User:XFez|XFez]], sorry for the late reply but this was hard to find. I don't know if Randall knows..., but maybe he does. But he does NOT support this wiki in any way -- like he does not here: [http://forums.xkcd.com http://forums.xkcd.com] (while everything is now on https that board isn't ;) ). So there is no final explanation and he says 100 points! To your second question: You are allowed to remove the "incomplete tag". But the given criteria is not enough, often that simple text covers not all. Please check also the discussion page. So, when you are not sure just change the criteria text and mention it at the discussion page. And for older comics you probably should talk to someone else here because nobody checks every comic every day.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:00, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

;Transcript TLDR;
I have started a discussion on this topic here: [[User_talk:Kynde#Transcript_TLDR.3B]]. I think I'm not the only one who wants the transcript to be short and only describing the essentials. Maybe we can define a Transcript-Guide.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 11:55, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:Thanks for letting me know about the comment in the previous comics discussion Dgbrt. I still disagree with you that we should not write down every word written in the comic even if it is not spoken. As else this comic would have none. But also the labels for the countries should be written down. But if that is as the end of the transcript, it would not trouble the reader! --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 14:27, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
::I added the names of the countries before noticing this discussion as I wanted to remove the incomplete tag, I apologize if I inconvenienced anyone due to this. IMO the text written in the comic deserves a mention but should be formatted in a way it doesn't bother those who don't need it. The text inside the square brackets should be kept concise.[[User:Asdf|Asdf]] ([[User talk:Asdf|talk]]) 18:48, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:::I shortened the description on top by a few words. The countries for each continent are now in one line. I added the incomplete tag again because the discussion is probably not finished. Feel free to remove this tag.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:39, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

;Labelled time zones

I created a map overlaid with more obvious time zone divisions, labelled with some of that zone's more popular abbreviations. Tried to keep 'em to Standard Time rather than Daylight. [http://i.imgur.com/L44ruPy.png Seen here.] --[[User:VonAether|VonAether]] ([[User talk:VonAether|talk]]) 17:39, 15 February 2017 (UTC)
:Fantastic VonAether. I was just thinking of making such a map, but your looks much better than what I had in mind. Would it be OK to download your map to these pages and insert it in the explanation? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 19:54, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
::Absolutely; that's why I made it. Go nuts. :) --[[User:VonAether|VonAether]] ([[User talk:VonAether|talk]]) 21:07, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
:::Thanks a lot VonAether. I will put it on the explantion now (I also posted my question on VonAether's talk page, and his answer is copied in here from there). --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 21:32, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Palawan is missing again?--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.230.45|162.158.230.45]] 02:07, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

; Table entries

* Shall we put all countries there even if they are not on the map because of their size? San Marino, Monaco, Liechtenstein, Malta etc. What about all the Oceania? If not, shall we remove those not shown, but already put in the table?
* What about regions, i.e. Middle East? I'd vote for removal
* I would definitely remove Lake Victoria, it has no use in this context. Or shall we add the Great Lakes?
: [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 17:44, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
:: Since nobody commented on it, I went ahead and removed regions, not shown countries and the Lake Victoria. -- [[User:Malgond|Malgond]] ([[User talk:Malgond|talk]]) 13:33, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

; Overlay Time Zones Map / comic
I created an overlay, taking Australia and Greenland as reference points. It makes it easier to find the distortions. I am not yet very happy with it. But if you like the idea I would try to do region focused maps... Unfortunately even the large version of the comic resolution is worse compared with the time zones map which I took from Wikipedia. --[[User:LaVe|LaVe]] ([[User talk:LaVe|talk]]) 18:19, 25 February 2017 (UTC)