Editing Talk:1431: Marriage
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:Graphs tend to be hard. On that note, the transcript was tricky and probably needs work. [[User:Athang|Athang]] ([[User talk:Athang|talk]]) 05:14, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | :Graphs tend to be hard. On that note, the transcript was tricky and probably needs work. [[User:Athang|Athang]] ([[User talk:Athang|talk]]) 05:14, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | ||
:: Hope you don't mind, I just about completely rewrote the transcript, attempting to indicate the structure of each line and the visual effect I thought was intended -- [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 11:41, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | :: Hope you don't mind, I just about completely rewrote the transcript, attempting to indicate the structure of each line and the visual effect I thought was intended -- [[User:Brettpeirce|Brettpeirce]] ([[User talk:Brettpeirce|talk]]) 11:41, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | ||
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Notice that every human person living or dead has exactly one mother and one father because of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamete Gamete] mechanism (even if one or even both parents are sometimes unknown or the person is raised by other people). [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UN_Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child#Article_7 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child] article 7 mentions "The child (...) immediately after birth (...) shall have the right (...) to know and be cared for by his or her parents." | Notice that every human person living or dead has exactly one mother and one father because of the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamete Gamete] mechanism (even if one or even both parents are sometimes unknown or the person is raised by other people). [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UN_Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child#Article_7 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child] article 7 mentions "The child (...) immediately after birth (...) shall have the right (...) to know and be cared for by his or her parents." | ||
− | In the US | + | Now consider people technically fertile but whose situation is not a traditional couple (they may be single or same-sex couple). In the US they can buy a child specifically produced to be adopted (I know in my town two French gay men that bought two children in the US). Depending on the situation, children are produced using [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surrogacy gestational surrogacy] or [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_reproductive_technology Assisted reproductive technology]. |
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Those children are produced to be deprived of one of their parents. That violates [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UN_Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child#Article_7 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child], right ? Is that a progress ? How to solve that ? | Those children are produced to be deprived of one of their parents. That violates [http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/UN_Convention_on_the_Rights_of_the_Child#Article_7 United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child], right ? Is that a progress ? How to solve that ? | ||
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--[[User:MGitsfullofsheep|MGitsfullofsheep]] ([[User talk:MGitsfullofsheep|talk]]) 11:44, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | --[[User:MGitsfullofsheep|MGitsfullofsheep]] ([[User talk:MGitsfullofsheep|talk]]) 11:44, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | ||
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:So you're saying that adoption (from gay or straight couples) violates the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child? That all sperm donation should be banned? [[User:Diszy|Diszy]] ([[User talk:Diszy|talk]]) 12:17, 8 October 2014 (UTC) Also, the US has not ratified the UNCRC so this discussion is moot. You can't hold them to the rules if they blatantly declare that they don't follow them.[[User:Diszy|Diszy]] ([[User talk:Diszy|talk]]) 12:25, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | :So you're saying that adoption (from gay or straight couples) violates the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child? That all sperm donation should be banned? [[User:Diszy|Diszy]] ([[User talk:Diszy|talk]]) 12:17, 8 October 2014 (UTC) Also, the US has not ratified the UNCRC so this discussion is moot. You can't hold them to the rules if they blatantly declare that they don't follow them.[[User:Diszy|Diszy]] ([[User talk:Diszy|talk]]) 12:25, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | ||
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::Thank you for your reply Diszy. | ::Thank you for your reply Diszy. | ||
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::No, I'm not saying that. The case of babies produced and sold, even after many debates, seems somehow wrong in a way that has nothing to do with sexual orientation of parents. | ::No, I'm not saying that. The case of babies produced and sold, even after many debates, seems somehow wrong in a way that has nothing to do with sexual orientation of parents. | ||
::When a child has no suitable genetic parents (they are dead or abusing) I understand that adoption is clearly compatible with UNCRC article 7. | ::When a child has no suitable genetic parents (they are dead or abusing) I understand that adoption is clearly compatible with UNCRC article 7. | ||
− | + | :When a child is produced to be deprived of one parent, I find it debatable. Or maybe we can save the logic by considering that the genetic parent "resigns" their responsibility, which falls back to the previous case. | |
::> That all sperm donation should be banned? | ::> That all sperm donation should be banned? | ||
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::--[[User:MGitsfullofsheep|MGitsfullofsheep]] ([[User talk:MGitsfullofsheep|talk]]) 15:04, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | ::--[[User:MGitsfullofsheep|MGitsfullofsheep]] ([[User talk:MGitsfullofsheep|talk]]) 15:04, 8 October 2014 (UTC) | ||
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It's interesting to think about the differences between interracial marriage versus gay marriage. In the latter situation an entire class of people aren't able to obtain the only type of marriage that would likely appeal to them, whereas I think interracial marriages are more "fungible" (definitely not the right word) in that a person who engages in an interracial marriage may not have a strong preference for interracial marriages over intraracial marriages. So in banning interracial marriage, they impacted specific individuals, but there wasn't a well-defined class of interracial marriage pursuers who were denied the right to marry. I think this is relevant because in the case of gay-marriage, most people in the wronged class (people who want gay marriages), and many people outside of the wronged class, all support the right. With interracial marriage on the other hand, I would be curious to see if it was mostly whites that opposed interracial marriage, or if large percentages of whites, blacks, and other minorities also disapproved of interracial marriage. | It's interesting to think about the differences between interracial marriage versus gay marriage. In the latter situation an entire class of people aren't able to obtain the only type of marriage that would likely appeal to them, whereas I think interracial marriages are more "fungible" (definitely not the right word) in that a person who engages in an interracial marriage may not have a strong preference for interracial marriages over intraracial marriages. So in banning interracial marriage, they impacted specific individuals, but there wasn't a well-defined class of interracial marriage pursuers who were denied the right to marry. I think this is relevant because in the case of gay-marriage, most people in the wronged class (people who want gay marriages), and many people outside of the wronged class, all support the right. With interracial marriage on the other hand, I would be curious to see if it was mostly whites that opposed interracial marriage, or if large percentages of whites, blacks, and other minorities also disapproved of interracial marriage. | ||
[[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.194|173.245.54.194]] 15:21, 8 October 2014 (UTC)XkdcPoster | [[Special:Contributions/173.245.54.194|173.245.54.194]] 15:21, 8 October 2014 (UTC)XkdcPoster | ||
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