Talk:3011: Europa Clipper

I'm not brave enough to actually add an explanation myself, quite yet, but ... I guess this is a reference to the fact(?) that Europa looks a bit like a creme brulee', when viewed from space? https://science.nasa.gov/jupiter/moons/europa/ It does look tasty ... :) ModelD (talk) 12:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

I suspect it's more due to the need to drill through a couple miles of ice to get to the ocean; much like breaking through the sugar crust on a creme broule! Seebert (talk) 13:16, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you to the people at 9AM Post things on another website to try and explain XKCD Comics. -Forgotten_Mail 172.69.33.177 (talk) 13:30, 13 November 2024 (please sign your comments with ~~~~)

The comically large spoon!!!!!!!!!! I love those. -P?sych??otic?pot??at???o (talk) 16:38, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Don't be sucked in! Protect yourself! https://rathergood.com/2017/02/10/spoonguard/ 141.101.99.105 10:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the "Crème brûlée is from France, France is in Europe, the moon is called Europa" connection is a bit of a stretch...? Yorkshire Pudding (talk) 18:36, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Eh, it's the same etymology. --172.69.134.230 11:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The issue of the continent and the moon coming from the same classical source (for different reasons) rather stretches the link between the dish (from the country, from the country's region/continent, from the region of Greece, possibly from the pantheon) and the moon (directly from the pantheon). I agree with the 'stretch' assessment. You can probably find easier and more plausible (but wrong) links worth alluding to than that, which relies upon several steps and a possible polysemic pair of original links. 172.70.58.45 12:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

From an American perspective, Europe might seem like a distant, mysterious place that you might want to send a probe to to gather interesting information, and also somewhere that crème brûlée comes from. It's also potentially confusable (by the easily confused) with Europa. That seems like a reasonable enough connection to make to me. The mention of France is essentially by the by.172.71.26.107 12:23, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

It keeps getting said that "Europa is named after Europe", which is not correct (etymology, BTW, not entomology). I shall have to re-restore some other changes made to the same paragraph in rapid succession whilst I was trying to explain this. Bear with me. 172.70.160.195 14:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

...You don't care, do you. You just keep putting it back in. SMH. Have fun. Someone else will probably be along to correct you again later. 141.101.68.92 15:35, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

"only a spoonful" moment 💔 Caliban (talk) 19:20, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Someone should add a reference to XKCD's previous mention of a Planetary Protection Officer: https://what-if.xkcd.com/117/ 162.158.42.221 00:09, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

JUICE mentioned!!! cracker ham cheese cracker ham cheese cracker N-eh (talk) 07:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Edited out, alas. It's a fascinating, and entertaining, experience to set up a starter explanation and then watch it bubble and froth. As with the crème | France | Europe | Europa trajectory (in which I had no part after posting the starter). 108.162.245.113 18:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Here is a list from NASA about spacecraft instrument deployment failures, they are remarkably frequent: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20210020397/downloads/Alphonzo%20Stewart-%20Final%20Paper.pdf 162.158.19.50 13:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I think we need to have a conversation about how the insertion orbit plan is so chaotic that there is a significant chance that the probe might crash in to and pierce the crust of Europa. 162.158.187.56 14:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

...and if so, what's the likelihood of hitting just the right angle to scrape off a tasty bit with that spoon? Transgalactic (talk) 16:04, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

What would you like it to be? I can't step on butterflies, but I can certainly act according to the purest form of free will by strapping a noise bridge diode to my corpus callosum. 108.162.246.83 16:17, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Well we just need Elon to lock in the plan that if it crashes then it automatically becomes a sample return mission, and the first SolarCity sales rep to break out +150% of their quota gets to be the one to crash it. 162.158.42.130 15:56, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

What part of "Attempt No Landing There" is unclear to you? Liv2splain (talk) 18:36, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

In all seriousness, the liquid water is a good reason to be extremely careful so you don't end up detecting tardigrades, deinococcus radiodurans, or bacillus subtilis. 172.70.214.166 19:16, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I can not believe I got ChatGPT to make this for me:

172.68.23.82 "This bull is kind of weirdly friendly and actually pretty cool" 16:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

"Europa was this smart, ambitious woman...." She was a nepo baby. 172.70.206.231 18:55, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

ChatGPT should have learned long ago that it's not cool to reproduce rape culture. But I guess AI just doesn't get better than its training material... Transgalactic (talk) 16:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

It is apparently aware of the issue:

"The myth of Zeus and Europa is problematic from a modern perspective, especially concerning consent. Europa willingly approaches and even climbs onto Zeus, who is disguised as a bull, suggesting an initial level of curiosity and comfort. However, Zeus’s sudden abduction of Europa—taking her across the sea to Crete and revealing his true identity only after they arrive—shows a disregard for her autonomy, as she never consented to go with him under those terms. Her actions are based on Zeus’s deception, and without knowing his true intentions, her choice was not fully informed. In Greek mythology, such abductions were common symbols of divine intervention, reflecting a worldview where gods often overpowered human agency, a stark contrast to today’s emphasis on consent and personal autonomy."

The issue with Zeus's behavior was tempered by the story that he gave Europa a kingdom to rule and all the riches and luxuries that came with it. Isn't that the way bad boyfriends are excused in our day and age? 172.70.211.143 17:45, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Like King Tyrannis in Krapopolis? All that glitters is not gold. 172.68.22.93 18:02, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Given how it's likely not Zeus's momentary crush, that was the Europa concerned (naming the river, region then contintent), all that ChatGPT stuff is interesting but very likely going down totally the wrong trail of ideas. Of course, the phylomemetic development of legends is probably very mixed up, and trying to trace what figures certain phonemes originally refered to (before being cooked and remixed in countless oral 'history' retellings with few written standard versions to keep them static and consistant) is an art in itself. 172.71.26.42 19:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

The Greek myths were handed down in writing and by the oral tradition. They are absolutely diverse but the common threads are a large part of what an entire middle age of clerical monks have bestowed upon Western culture. In that tradition, Europa kept her gift kingdom instead of returning home, which suggests some measure of consent after the fact. If you were given a huge island kingdom because some god-bull decided to take you for a surprise swim, would you refuse it? 172.70.211.129 19:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Since more 'modern' times (to speak of monks, you'd generally be talking about mediæval times onwards, though some priests and scholars of pre-christianity eras may have played some similar roles beforehand), they may have been 'well' documented, but we're talking about bronze-age-and-earlier (mostly) oral traditions that bumbled along for a long time with few persisting writings/engravings. Imagine what ancient records were lost in Alexandria/other destructions, or sat upon stone/clay that has since lain undiscovered for cdnturies but likely crumbled well beyond the ability of any lucky archaeologist to reconstruct.

And not all of the various women/beings of that name could have been just retellings of the same 'original' (with deviations). Zeus's Europa likely, in fact, far post-dates the examples rooted in the pre-Olympian pantheon. Either in 'actual legend' or in the tales that developed to explain the current understanding of the soap-opera that was what gods/titans/whatever had performed to get from the creation of the world to 'now'. 172.69.43.183 19:52, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

I suggest that scholars of Christianity may not have as accurate of a take on the Greek myths as agnostic scholars of the Greek classical works and recorded traditions.[1] 162.158.186.253 20:09, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

My spoon is too big! https://youtu.be/PONvX6LmAPo?si=u4iIjQLEplVZf-Xq Foobarbecue (talk) 21:19, 14 November 2024 (UTC)