Editing Talk:1221: Nomenclature

When I saw the obvious Doctor Who reference, I jumped on the Wiki hoping to be the first to post the Who's On First reference.  I drastically underestimate xkcd fans. [[Special:Contributions/76.106.251.87|76.106.251.87]] 04:44, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I thought that the middle guy was Short Round from Temple of Doom, since he shouts "Doctor Jones, Doctor Jones!" but I suppose that doesn't really make sense.--[[Special:Contributions/74.125.18.32|74.125.18.32]] 10:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I came here for an explanation of the ''comic'' and found none. So far there are only explanations of the ''references.'' Who are the three characters in the comic, and what is the situation they’re in? Which kind of confusion arised between them? (Though I got ''all'' the pop-cultural references mentioned I cannot make any sense of the comic so far.) --[[Special:Contributions/77.185.42.247|77.185.42.247]] 10:45, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
:Hypothetical answer: The tall and short baseball players are Bud Abbott and Lou Costello, respectively. Abbott is talking about the baseball team with the oddly-named players from the "Who's on First" routine, except that the Doctor from "Doctor Who" is playing first base. Abbott is attempting to tell Costello about his lineup in the usual "Who's on First" style, and Costello is completely confused by it as usual. However, Megan (someone more familiar with the Doctor Who franchise) interrupts to explain that the first baseman, who Abbott thinks is named "Dr. Who", is actually just "The Doctor" and does not have "Who" as part of his name. --[[Special:Contributions/99.140.166.189|99.140.166.189]] 13:42, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I see it as an homage to Abbot & Costello's "Who's on first" routine, but with actual characters from literature and the media. The joke is that when the "Who's on first" routine first came out everyone thought the names were just implausible, made-up characters. We were wrong, but I don't know (Third Base). [[User:Galois|Galois]] ([[User talk:Galois|talk]]) 11:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I went a bit verbose on expanding the exposition, only to get edit-sniped right as I was posting.  I think the other version is better, but FYI here is what I'd ended up with, in case any of it is still useful...
:{{w|Doctor (Doctor Who)|The Doctor}} from the long-running British television series ''{{w|Doctor Who}}'' has been incorrectly referred to as "Who", "Doctor Who" or "Dr. Who" by fans and commentators (not helped by the series name, itself, and how the character was credited in various earlier episodes' and some spin-off works).  When not using a pseudonym or playing along with some form of mistaken identity, however, he overwhelmingly tends to introduce himself as "The Doctor".  If not unquestionably accepted (perhaps due to natural {{w|Time Lord}} 'glamour'/confidence or some {{w|TARDIS}} effect) this tends to elicit the response "Doctor who?".  His response to this question is often "Just 'The Doctor'."
(...which, I originally pointed out but edited away, often tends to settle things.  Really, between the TARDIS translation field/etc, his recent use of psychic paper and of course his own long-practiced assertive air of self-confidence, he has avoided a ''lot'' of 'First Contact'-type problems.  Not infallably so, of course, but that's Plot for you.) [[Special:Contributions/178.98.154.137|178.98.154.137]] 13:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Interestingly, it appears that his name is both "Doctor Who" and "The Doctor".  All living pre-2005 actors who played the role, as well as Doctor Who Magazine itself, refer to him as Doctor Who.  It's only since the reboot of the series in 2005 that people, mostly those referred to as "NuWhos", insist his one and only name is "The Doctor".

How is it that no one has mentioned the Robot Chicken take on this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNIdqvMUhrE

What does "Aunt Beast" in the title text refer to? [[Special:Contributions/72.92.72.222|72.92.72.222]] 16:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

:On the issue of "NuWhos" being the pedantic ones, I'm an avowed traditionalist Whovian from way back when (4th Doctor era, technically, although I actually relate more to Five's era), and we were ''always'' being joyfully sniffy about those (including 'official media', and episode credits themselves) that used to name any given incarnation as "Doctor Who".  (''Apart'' from Peter Cushing, who ''is'' a doctor named Who... and is also entirely human.)
:We noticed with disgust when new-era Who ''perpetuated'' the error.  The end-credits for Nine/Eccleston said "Doctor Who" for his entire season.  It became only became "The Doctor" for The Christmas Invasion, the inter-season special that was Ten's first full episode.  Probably due to a load of us fans berating TPTB about the error.  (My recordings of the '96 TV movie and what I have of the older seasons aren't at hand, though, to double check their credits, and I know it varied.  The IMDB listing for McGann's production suggests "The Doctor" ''was'' correct for him, though.)
:And I can't subscribe to the authority of 'mere' actors or even official spin-off literature if the producers ''themselves'' can be shown to be utterly '''wrong'''... ;) [[Special:Contributions/178.107.63.150|178.107.63.150]] 19:21, 5 June 2013 (UTC)



I slightly disagree with the current state of the explanation.  First, I think the Doctor is the first baseman, not Mrs. Who (why else is the Doctor even being mentioned by the duo in the comic?).  Second, the "on first" or "on second" is little bit ambiguous.  If you say "X is on first" that could mean that X is a member of the batting team and has made it to first base, or it could mean that X is a member of the fielding team and is the first baseman. Now, the Abbot and Costello routine removes the ambiguity because it is said at the start of the skit that the team's lineup is being given, which means any references to "on first", "on second", etc. have to be to the defensive positions.  But in this explanation I think it would be better to say that the Doctor is the first baseman (or is playing first) and Mrs. Whatsit is the second baseman. 16:54 5 June 2013 (UTC)
:That's actually what's funny about this comic. Costello is confused about the name of the player playing first base. Megan is adding to the confusion because she misinterprets the "Who" in a new, different way than either Abbott or Costello. --[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 17:42, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I think we do need more explain on the title text. While we still have this confusion about names there is someone (the captain?) shouting to the field. So this must be a real baseball game. Aunt Beast is the batter and hitting the ball for Mrs Whatsit to reach the second base. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:02, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

The title text refers to "A Wrinkle in Time" by Madeleine L'Engle.
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-I honestly thought this was a reference to The Batter from the game Off. He often looks like an XKCD character.
-'''I''' thought the guy in the middle was Marty McFly from BACK TO THE FUTURE, referring to Doc Brown. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.72.191|162.158.72.191]] 21:53, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
 When I saw the obvious Doctor Who reference, I jumped on the Wiki hoping to be the first to post the Who's On First reference.  I drastically underestimate xkcd fans. [[Special:Contributions/76.106.251.87|76.106.251.87]] 04:44, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 I thought that the middle guy was Short Round from Temple of Doom, since he shouts "Doctor Jones, Doctor Jones!" but I suppose that doesn't really make sense.--[[Special:Contributions/74.125.18.32|74.125.18.32]] 10:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
-I came here for an explanation of the ''comic'' and found none. So far there are only explanations of the ''references.'' Who are the three characters in the comic, and what is the situation they’re in? Which kind of confusion arised between them? (Though I got ''all'' the pop-cultural references mentioned I cannot make any sense of the comic so far.) --[[Special:Contributions/77.185.42.247|77.185.42.247]] 10:45, 5 June 2013 (UTC)  Who is not in the comic.  Who is on first.  What is not in the situation of the characters of the comic; What is on second.
+I came here for an explanation of the ''comic'' and found none. So far there are only explanations of the ''references.'' Who are the three characters in the comic, and what is the situation they’re in? Which kind of confusion arised between them? (Though I got ''all'' the pop-cultural references mentioned I cannot make any sense of the comic so far.) --[[Special:Contributions/77.185.42.247|77.185.42.247]] 10:45, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
-:Hypothetical answer: The tall and short baseball players are Bud Abbott and Lou Costello, respectively. Abbott is talking about the baseball team with the oddly-named players from the "Who's on First" routine, except that the Doctor from "Doctor Who" is playing first base. Abbott is attempting to tell Costello about his lineup in the usual "Who's on First" style, and Costello is completely confused by it as usual. However, Megan (someone more familiar with the Doctor Who franchise) interrupts to explain that the first baseman, who Abbott thinks is named "Dr. Who", is actually just "The Doctor" and does not have "Who" as part of his name. --[[Special:Contributions/99.140.166.189|99.140.166.189]] 13:42, 5 June 2013 (UTC)  The Doctor is not on first.  Who is on First.  The Doctor is in right field.
+:Hypothetical answer: The tall and short baseball players are Bud Abbott and Lou Costello, respectively. Abbott is talking about the baseball team with the oddly-named players from the "Who's on First" routine, except that the Doctor from "Doctor Who" is playing first base. Abbott is attempting to tell Costello about his lineup in the usual "Who's on First" style, and Costello is completely confused by it as usual. However, Megan (someone more familiar with the Doctor Who franchise) interrupts to explain that the first baseman, who Abbott thinks is named "Dr. Who", is actually just "The Doctor" and does not have "Who" as part of his name. --[[Special:Contributions/99.140.166.189|99.140.166.189]] 13:42, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 I see it as an homage to Abbot & Costello's "Who's on first" routine, but with actual characters from literature and the media. The joke is that when the "Who's on first" routine first came out everyone thought the names were just implausible, made-up characters. We were wrong, but I don't know (Third Base). [[User:Galois|Galois]] ([[User talk:Galois|talk]]) 11:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
@@ Line 15: / Line 10: @@
 I went a bit verbose on expanding the exposition, only to get edit-sniped right as I was posting.  I think the other version is better, but FYI here is what I'd ended up with, in case any of it is still useful...
 :{{w|Doctor (Doctor Who)|The Doctor}} from the long-running British television series ''{{w|Doctor Who}}'' has been incorrectly referred to as "Who", "Doctor Who" or "Dr. Who" by fans and commentators (not helped by the series name, itself, and how the character was credited in various earlier episodes' and some spin-off works).  When not using a pseudonym or playing along with some form of mistaken identity, however, he overwhelmingly tends to introduce himself as "The Doctor".  If not unquestionably accepted (perhaps due to natural {{w|Time Lord}} 'glamour'/confidence or some {{w|TARDIS}} effect) this tends to elicit the response "Doctor who?".  His response to this question is often "Just 'The Doctor'."
-(...which, I originally pointed out but edited away, often tends to settle things.  Really, between the TARDIS translation field/etc, his recent use of psychic paper and of course his own long-practiced assertive air of self-confidence, he has avoided a ''lot'' of 'First Contact'-type problems.  Not infallably so, of course, but that's Plot for you.) [[Special:Contributions/178.98.154.137|178.98.154.137]] 13:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)  Similarly, some people may think that Mrs. Whatsit's name is Whatsit, but her name is What.  Whatsit is actually the name of her husband.  [Not the Doctor's husband, the husband of the second baseman.]
+(...which, I originally pointed out but edited away, often tends to settle things.  Really, between the TARDIS translation field/etc, his recent use of psychic paper and of course his own long-practiced assertive air of self-confidence, he has avoided a ''lot'' of 'First Contact'-type problems.  Not infallably so, of course, but that's Plot for you.) [[Special:Contributions/178.98.154.137|178.98.154.137]] 13:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 Interestingly, it appears that his name is both "Doctor Who" and "The Doctor".  All living pre-2005 actors who played the role, as well as Doctor Who Magazine itself, refer to him as Doctor Who.  It's only since the reboot of the series in 2005 that people, mostly those referred to as "NuWhos", insist his one and only name is "The Doctor".
@@ Line 21: / Line 16: @@
 How is it that no one has mentioned the Robot Chicken take on this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNIdqvMUhrE
-What does "Aunt Beast" in the title text refer to? [[Special:Contributions/72.92.72.222|72.92.72.222]] 16:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)  "Aunt Beast" is another example of an honorific, and refers to a player on the batting team.
+What does "Aunt Beast" in the title text refer to? [[Special:Contributions/72.92.72.222|72.92.72.222]] 16:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
 :On the issue of "NuWhos" being the pedantic ones, I'm an avowed traditionalist Whovian from way back when (4th Doctor era, technically, although I actually relate more to Five's era), and we were ''always'' being joyfully sniffy about those (including 'official media', and episode credits themselves) that used to name any given incarnation as "Doctor Who".  (''Apart'' from Peter Cushing, who ''is'' a doctor named Who... and is also entirely human.)
@@ Line 27: / Line 22: @@
 :And I can't subscribe to the authority of 'mere' actors or even official spin-off literature if the producers ''themselves'' can be shown to be utterly '''wrong'''... ;) [[Special:Contributions/178.107.63.150|178.107.63.150]] 19:21, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
-:I don't think fan complaints had anything to do with the change. RTD clearly enjoys trolling the hardcore fans sometimes (remember when he claimed not to know anything about the novels, even though we all remember that he actually wrote one of them?). But David Tennanf is one of the people who complained, and I suspect Davies just found it too exhausting to argue with Tennant. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 10:21, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
@@ Line 35: / Line 29: @@
 I think we do need more explain on the title text. While we still have this confusion about names there is someone (the captain?) shouting to the field. So this must be a real baseball game. Aunt Beast is the batter and hitting the ball for Mrs Whatsit to reach the second base. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 19:02, 5 June 2013 (UTC)
-The title text refers to "A Wrinkle in Time" by Madeleine L'Engle. {{unsigned ip|71.199.241.5}}
+The title text refers to "A Wrinkle in Time" by Madeleine L'Engle.
-"Nomenclature" could use a definition, since it ties the joke together. [[Special:Contributions/76.106.251.87|76.106.251.87]] 03:41, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
-:So write one. --[[User:DanB|DanB]] ([[User talk:DanB|talk]]) 14:17, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
-::The explanation looks like it needs to be rewritten since it looks so patchy from pieces of explanations just getting added on a whim.  I don't want to add to that problem since I'm not a writer.  But I appreciate your faith in me. [[Special:Contributions/76.106.251.87|76.106.251.87]] 16:55, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
-:::Tell us more, there are writers here who will adopt.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 18:49, 6 June 2013 (UTC)
-::::I planned to go into more detail when I got off of work, but the IP that cleaned it up already did an amazing job. [[Special:Contributions/76.106.251.87|76.106.251.87]] 21:39, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
-:::::Mrs Whatsit is not running for the second base but catching the ball against the runner (who? - not the Doctor) ??? I'm still sure she is running to that base. Help me to understand if I am wrong.--[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 22:08, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
-In this comic, Randall demonstrates two sources of ambiguous nomenclature based on honorifics:  What, playing second base, is married to Mister Whatsit.  What is Mrs. Whatsit.  The players in the comic are confused by the name of one of the players from the fielding team, the Doctor.  Doctor Who?  No.  Who is on first.  The Doctor is in right field.  One justification for bringing the Doctor into the Abbot and Costello's team of players is that cast of characters in one of their video performances shows the right field position is held by "?".  This symbol has been associated with the Doctor and has been seen embroidered on his clothing.  [Perhaps the appearance of a question mark is a coincidence of the type that causes people to think that Superman's "S" is the initial letter of the word "Superman".]  Note:  In the Abbot and Costello routine, honorifics were not used, as the players were named familiarly, as one would use nicknames, and no honorifics, such as "Mr. Who" were used.  Only in this comic are honorifics "Mrs." and "Dr." and "Aunt" used, which is a main reason for the title being called "nomenclature."  (But it may be that "Aunt" may be Ms. Beast's first name...){{unsigned|Comet}}
-Perhaps also worth mentioning for posterity is that this comic appeared three weeks after the 2013 Dr Who season finale called "The Name Of The Doctor".
-[[Special:Contributions/149.241.204.87|149.241.204.87]] 19:23, 19 June 2013 (UTC)
-----
-Note that, according to the official transcript, "Megan" is "Mrs. Whatsit" here. [[User:Markhurd|Mark Hurd]] ([[User talk:Markhurd|talk]]) 15:41, 12 July 2013 (UTC)
-What I find implausible here is the idea that the Doctor would play baseball. I could maybe see Eleven putting on Five's old outfit and going onto the diamond to try to play cricket and not understanding why everyone kept telling him he was doing it wrong. But that's about as close as I can imagine any incarnation getting to baseball. [[Special:Contributions/199.27.130.180|199.27.130.180]] 10:26, 21 September 2015 (UTC)
-This was also the topic of a recent sketch on the late show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8gHN3L0djw [[Special:Contributions/162.158.255.219|162.158.255.219]] 03:22, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
-I know it's been a while, but I just came across this comic now - Feb 2020 - I don't know the Aunt Beast reference, but in Wrinkle in Time, there was a Mrs. Who.  Is the comic perhaps conflating fictional characters named Who? (Weirdly enough, in the Grinch story, he lives near the town of Whoville, which is populated by Whos, and they eat for dinner... Roast Beast! But it is likely nobody's Aunt...)
-:As the current explanation (November, 2021) says, Aunt Beast is a minor character in ''A Wrinkle in Time'', who cares for Meg after she (SPOILER) escapes from Camazotz. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 00:13, 15 November 2021 (UTC)