Editing Talk:2034: Equations

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He's nerd sniping us all.. ([[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.120|162.158.167.120]] 03:30, 18 August 2018 (UTC))
 
He's nerd sniping us all.. ([[Special:Contributions/162.158.167.120|162.158.167.120]] 03:30, 18 August 2018 (UTC))
: ..and perhaps forcing us to build out symbolic usage which is not generating well for math parsers, wiki, etc. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.60|162.158.186.60]] 14:45, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
 
  
 
Should we add a column with examples of similar correct equations from the respective fields? Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.4|172.68.110.4]] 09:33, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
Should we add a column with examples of similar correct equations from the respective fields? Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.4|172.68.110.4]] 09:33, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
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:Looks like it. But I don't think that letter exists even. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.221|162.158.91.221]] 07:28, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:Looks like it. But I don't think that letter exists even. --[[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.221|162.158.91.221]] 07:28, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:Is this equation a sort of nod to a Theory Of Everything which unifies quantum mechanics and gravity... H-hat (a Hamiltonian,  which in quantum mechanics describes the total energy of a system, and usually runs in to problems describing large systems - such as the entire universe - where gravity or spacetime curvature effects matter) *minus* u0 (the relativistic mass of the whole system at time zero ie. the big bang) gives 0 (no energy everywhere always). Since mass is energy (e=mc^2) and mass is also the sole cause of gravity the two theories cleanly collapse together when mass is zero, and figuring out how to extend the theory to other less clean points on the mass axis is obviously a job for less profound physics? I've no ideas to explain the cedilla. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.28|141.101.98.28]] 08:49, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:Is this equation a sort of nod to a Theory Of Everything which unifies quantum mechanics and gravity... H-hat (a Hamiltonian,  which in quantum mechanics describes the total energy of a system, and usually runs in to problems describing large systems - such as the entire universe - where gravity or spacetime curvature effects matter) *minus* u0 (the relativistic mass of the whole system at time zero ie. the big bang) gives 0 (no energy everywhere always). Since mass is energy (e=mc^2) and mass is also the sole cause of gravity the two theories cleanly collapse together when mass is zero, and figuring out how to extend the theory to other less clean points on the mass axis is obviously a job for less profound physics? I've no ideas to explain the cedilla. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.28|141.101.98.28]] 08:49, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
::E=mc^2 no more means that vis is mass than V=abc means that volume is width; rather they are proportional. [[User:Lysdexia|Lysdexia]] ([[User talk:Lysdexia|talk]]) 01:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
:It looks to me a little like a parody of the {{w|Wheeler-DeWitt_equation#Hamiltonian_constraint|Wheeler-DeWitt equation}} which (in theory) describes a wavefunction for the entire Universe. [[User:Exxi|Exxi]] ([[User talk:Exxi|talk]]) 09:06, 17 August 2018 (UTC)一
 
:It looks to me a little like a parody of the {{w|Wheeler-DeWitt_equation#Hamiltonian_constraint|Wheeler-DeWitt equation}} which (in theory) describes a wavefunction for the entire Universe. [[User:Exxi|Exxi]] ([[User talk:Exxi|talk]]) 09:06, 17 August 2018 (UTC)一
 
: I'm just thrilled someone found the right character for it. I spent 20 minutes looking for the right u symbol without any luck at all. {{unsigned ip|172.68.143.132}}
 
: I'm just thrilled someone found the right character for it. I spent 20 minutes looking for the right u symbol without any luck at all. {{unsigned ip|172.68.143.132}}
 
Is this poking fun at equation-filled blackboards in movies and cartoons? {{unsigned ip|172.68.254.42}}
 
Is this poking fun at equation-filled blackboards in movies and cartoons? {{unsigned ip|172.68.254.42}}
 
:Doesn't seem like it. These equations actually do look like the kinds of equations you would see in these fields. On blackboards in movies you tend to get equations that are pure nonsense. {{unsigned ip|172.68.143.132}}
 
:Doesn't seem like it. These equations actually do look like the kinds of equations you would see in these fields. On blackboards in movies you tend to get equations that are pure nonsense. {{unsigned ip|172.68.143.132}}
::pure = clean -> sheer = absolute [[User:Lysdexia|Lysdexia]] ([[User talk:Lysdexia|talk]]) 01:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
I think this may also be a reference to Feynman's unworldliness equation, http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_25.html#Ch25-S6 . [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.220|108.162.219.220]] 17:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
I think this may also be a reference to Feynman's unworldliness equation, http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/II_25.html#Ch25-S6 . [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.220|108.162.219.220]] 17:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
I'd thought the point of the "u" with the cedilla was simply visual (not a reference to an actual parameter). It visually looks like the head of "The Thinker" in profile with the bottom of the "u" being the chin and the cedilla being the curled hand upon which the chin rests. So, the joke would be a twist on the term "deep" where in the cartoon the u+cedilla represents deep thought rather than far away (deep) into space. Monroe likes these little visual puns.[[User:Genejockey33000|Genejockey33000]] ([[User talk:Genejockey33000|talk]]) 14:01, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
I don't like the comparison with <math>E=mc^2</math>.  'Deep' physics equations have a lot of meaning assigned to each symbol, with each prime, tilde or cedilla adding meaning, and with complicated operations implicit (Think operators, tensor products etc.).  Einstein's relation is just a relation between 3 scalar variables, with the only operation being multiplication.  I appreciate not wanting to get too complicated.  Can we do any better?  I can't help thinking that writing down the GFEs in natural units and saying 'this describes all of spacetime' owtte would be just as effective and more accurate...[[User:Jezza2|Jezza2]] ([[User talk:Jezza2|talk]]) 16:03, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
 
;Table layout at the explanation
 
;Table layout at the explanation
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::::<math>\sum_{i=1}^\infty i</math>
 
::::<math>\sum_{i=1}^\infty i</math>
 
:::Infinite is NO number! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 17:33, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:::Infinite is NO number! --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 17:33, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
::::<math>\infty-\infty</math> is indeterminate, just like 0/0 is in standard arithmetic. That's cool, because we don't need the value of <math>\infty-\infty</math> to calculate the above expression. Have a look at the [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_real_number_line extended real number line]. --[[User:Ycthiognass|Ycthiognass]] ([[User talk:Ycthiognass|talk]]) 06:18, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:::::1/0 != ∞ and 1/∞ != 0 wherefore 1 != 0∞ wherefore 0∞ = ℝ, and -∞ != -1 != 0 != 1 != 2 != ∞; therefore 1/0 ⊂ ∞, 1/∞ ⊂ 0, 1/0 ⊂ ±∞, and 1/±∞ ⊂ 0. [[User:Lysdexia|Lysdexia]] ([[User talk:Lysdexia|talk]]) 01:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
:Number theorists use <math>\pi</math> and <math>e</math> very often indeed, especially analytic number theorists (and since the double sum at hand is infinite it seems entirely fair to consider it analytic number theory territory). The exponential function <math>e(x) = e^{2 \pi i x}</math> is used all over in this field because of Fourier series (the coefficients of which, it turns out, can give remarkable amounts of arithmetic information if used properly).
 
:The same field of analytic number theory uses the infinity symbol <math>\infty</math> in calculations quite frequently too, because it is not uncommon to work on the Riemann sphere, which is the complex plane with a "point at infinity added". (That said, it doesn't quite save our hides in this particular comic, because the point at infinity doesn't have an additive inverse in this context.)
 
:For the record there are also numerous ways to extend the real numbers to include infinities in more or less algebraically nice ways, ranging from compactifying it by just tacking a point at infinity on (as with the Riemann sphere for the complex numbers, also called a projective extension), tacking a positive and negative infinity on as with the extended real line as above, to more algebraically nice structures like the hyperreals and surreals which are full blown fields. In these latter constructions it is not customary to use the <math>\infty</math> symbol, however, because there is more than just the one infinity in both, but they do allow us to make meaningful and useful sense of things like "infinity - infinity". [[User:Prstq|Prstq]] ([[User talk:Prstq|talk]])
 
::Don't make nice < niais < nescius := not-skilled ways and structures.  ∞ := ℵ₀. [[User:Lysdexia|Lysdexia]] ([[User talk:Lysdexia|talk]]) 01:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
  
 
Completely separate from the above, it's probably worth noting that i is also a constant, and as such has the same misconception as <math>\pi</math>. Computer scientists are happy using i for loops/summations, but mathematicians prefer using n. Based off that, it's probably another misconception/joke that n is treated as a constant, while known-constants are used as variables. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.149|108.162.246.149]] 17:28, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
Completely separate from the above, it's probably worth noting that i is also a constant, and as such has the same misconception as <math>\pi</math>. Computer scientists are happy using i for loops/summations, but mathematicians prefer using n. Based off that, it's probably another misconception/joke that n is treated as a constant, while known-constants are used as variables. [[Special:Contributions/108.162.246.149|108.162.246.149]] 17:28, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
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:There are fewer letters than mathematical concepts in need of letters, so most letters are used for multiple purposes.  Occasionally this causes difficulty. You can be halfway through a linear algebra problem before you discover you need i for an imaginary number despite already using it as an index.  Hilarity ensues. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.105|162.158.74.105]] 19:57, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:There are fewer letters than mathematical concepts in need of letters, so most letters are used for multiple purposes.  Occasionally this causes difficulty. You can be halfway through a linear algebra problem before you discover you need i for an imaginary number despite already using it as an index.  Hilarity ensues. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.105|162.158.74.105]] 19:57, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
  
Is it worth mentioning Euler's identity in the explanation? As a non-mathematician, the presence of e, pi, and i together in one equation looks "Euler's identity-ish" while clearly not being it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.39|162.158.74.39]] 22:20, 19 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
Honestly, seeing e, pi, and i isn't that farfetched, since quite a few applications of number theory to coordinate systems (in the computer-ey sense) take familiar XY coordinates, make them polar, and call them to complex numbers, with a bunch of operations done by multiplying by e to some complex power or other. And wherever waves go, pi goes...
 
Coming from nothing more than a high-school background, this whole system can be rather jarring, and difficult to understand. I'm just glad I understand enough bits and pieces of number theory to laugh at Randall's joke. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.186.12|162.158.186.12]] 19:41, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 
 
;Chemistry equation
 
;Chemistry equation
 
OH should have a charge symbol: OH<sup>-</sup>.  The actual reaction would be:
 
OH should have a charge symbol: OH<sup>-</sup>.  The actual reaction would be:
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The methyl group can dissolve in water, and this is presumably happening in water, so this equation can work, just not the one provided by Randell.  Reacting longer alkanes with bases is a way to make soaps, but the methyl group would be too reactive to be used this way.  [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:13, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
The methyl group can dissolve in water, and this is presumably happening in water, so this equation can work, just not the one provided by Randell.  Reacting longer alkanes with bases is a way to make soaps, but the methyl group would be too reactive to be used this way.  [[User:Nutster|Nutster]] ([[User talk:Nutster|talk]]) 13:13, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
OH without any charge is the hydroxil radical, a highly reactive moleculte, that in fact abstracts H (hydrogen atom, not a proton) from hydrocarbons. This is one step of combustion processes. The methyl radical generated combines itself quickly with oxygen.
 
The hydroxide anion you propose OH<sup>-</sup> do not react with hydrocarbons. 
 
  
 
;Fluid Dynamics equation
 
;Fluid Dynamics equation
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I changed a "p" to a Greek "rho". [[User:Redbelly98|Redbelly98]] ([[User talk:Redbelly98|talk]]) 00:40, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 
I changed a "p" to a Greek "rho". [[User:Redbelly98|Redbelly98]] ([[User talk:Redbelly98|talk]]) 00:40, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
  
The <math>\frac{\partial}{\partial t}</math> is the partial derivative of a function. The ∇ symbol (Nabla) denotes the vector of all partial derivatives of a function (called its gradient; eg. ∇(x+2y²)=(1,4y) ); ∇⋅ is the curl operator. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.91.59|162.158.91.59]] 18:53, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
 
 
;Gauge theory equation
 
;Gauge theory equation
 
<s>I think the transcript is missing a left superscript 0 before the turned xi.  [[Special:Contributions/172.68.226.16|172.68.226.16]] 16:50, 17 August 2018 (UTC)</s>  Ah no, sorry.  False alarm.  It's just that Randall writes the xi with a funny tail.  The same tail is on the non-turned xi earlier.  [[Special:Contributions/172.68.226.10|172.68.226.10]] 16:52, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
<s>I think the transcript is missing a left superscript 0 before the turned xi.  [[Special:Contributions/172.68.226.16|172.68.226.16]] 16:50, 17 August 2018 (UTC)</s>  Ah no, sorry.  False alarm.  It's just that Randall writes the xi with a funny tail.  The same tail is on the non-turned xi earlier.  [[Special:Contributions/172.68.226.10|172.68.226.10]] 16:52, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
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Could this be a reference to Feynman's jab at hiding complexity underneath symbol definitions to achieve 'simplicity'? See the Feynman Lectures on Physics, Volume II, Chapter 25, Section 6. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.100|162.158.150.100]] 09:19, 19 August 2018 (UTC)WhoIsJack
 
Could this be a reference to Feynman's jab at hiding complexity underneath symbol definitions to achieve 'simplicity'? See the Feynman Lectures on Physics, Volume II, Chapter 25, Section 6. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.150.100|162.158.150.100]] 09:19, 19 August 2018 (UTC)WhoIsJack
:Sounds good to me. [[User:Exxi|Exxi]] ([[User talk:Exxi|talk]]) 19:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 
  
 
;Explanations in general
 
;Explanations in general
 
“Nobody knows if Randall references a horse here” - what?! Because the expression lacks an equal sign; doesn’t represent an equality, it might mean Randall is referencing equines, aka horses?! Is this vandalism, an attempt at a joke, or what? This explanation clearly still needs quite a bit of work! [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 20:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
“Nobody knows if Randall references a horse here” - what?! Because the expression lacks an equal sign; doesn’t represent an equality, it might mean Randall is referencing equines, aka horses?! Is this vandalism, an attempt at a joke, or what? This explanation clearly still needs quite a bit of work! [[User:PotatoGod|PotatoGod]] ([[User talk:PotatoGod|talk]]) 20:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:I've put a header on top here. It's not vandalism but every explanation looks still highly unscientific. I've gave real sources to the most topics at the beginning but the following explanations are mostly bad. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:22, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
 
:I've put a header on top here. It's not vandalism but every explanation looks still highly unscientific. I've gave real sources to the most topics at the beginning but the following explanations are mostly bad. --[[User:Dgbrt|Dgbrt]] ([[User talk:Dgbrt|talk]]) 20:22, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
:I left that joke in as it was added whilst I was editing the rest of it, I don't think it belongs though. I did my best to reference real-life stuff while writing [Gauge, Quantum Gravity and Cosmology] the awfulness of the equations makes it hard to be scientific though. If there are specific issues I can have a shot at improving those sections although it's kinda hard to explain why I find them funny without going deep into the related physics. I'm not convinced it's possible to properly get that across to a non-physicist in a paragraph of explainXKCD. [[User:Exxi|Exxi]] ([[User talk:Exxi|talk]]) 19:29, 23 August 2018 (UTC)
 
  
 
;Kinematics equations
 
;Kinematics equations
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The fourth one, I see most of the word ANALOGY, so perhaps the trident-shaped thing equals N, and x> = L, and l (or 1) = G, so if you resolve all the way through you get GNL = ANALOGY and I don't have that quite right yet.
 
The fourth one, I see most of the word ANALOGY, so perhaps the trident-shaped thing equals N, and x> = L, and l (or 1) = G, so if you resolve all the way through you get GNL = ANALOGY and I don't have that quite right yet.
 
SU(2)U(1)xSU(U(2)) makes me think of Phil Collins singing "Su-Su-Sussudio oh oh". --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.40|108.162.245.40]] 20:37, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 
SU(2)U(1)xSU(U(2)) makes me think of Phil Collins singing "Su-Su-Sussudio oh oh". --[[Special:Contributions/108.162.245.40|108.162.245.40]] 20:37, 18 August 2018 (UTC)
 
;Has anyone considered the joke part?
 
As someone unfamiliar with scientific equations, I took the joke to be that Scientific Equations Are Complicated, until you get to the "truly deep" part, in which case they're pretty simple. As much as I appreciate the description of the equations, is anyone gonna explain whether my take on the joke is plausible? Or what it is if I'm wrong? [[Special:Contributions/108.162.219.214|108.162.219.214]] 15:52, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
;Is there a pun?
 
Am I the only one seeing a possible pun in SU(2)U(1)xSU(U(2))? I can't figure out the whole thing but SU(U(2)) sure looks like it reads "sue you too".
 
[[Special:Contributions/24.165.207.66|24.165.207.66]] 23:02, 20 August 2018 (UTC)
 
 
;No element symbols exist to form EAT
 
Although you could write HeAt (Helium-Astatine), I could find no element symbols to form EAT on the right-hand side of the reaction, so it appears to be an invalid expression anyway. (and yes, of course I know Randall is messing with us and you might be expected to read the first "heat" as "temperarature".) --[[User:IByte|IByte]] ([[User talk:IByte|talk]]) 11:17, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 
: And Randall wrote HEAT, not HeAt. They are different. [[User:Redbelly98|Redbelly98]] ([[User talk:Redbelly98|talk]]) 18:33, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
 
:Heat (Q) is not interchangeabil with temperature (T).  EAT could mean element-acid group-tritium or obsoletely erbium-argon-tritium. [[User:Lysdexia|Lysdexia]] ([[User talk:Lysdexia|talk]]) 01:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
 
Why does the notice still say 2034 lacks a complete explanation when here's no incomplete template? [[User:Lysdexia|Lysdexia]] ([[User talk:Lysdexia|talk]]) 01:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)
 
: Missing alt-text [[Special:Contributions/141.101.77.104|141.101.77.104]] 12:19, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 

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