Difference between revisions of "Talk:2913: Periodic Table Regions"

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(tom lehrer)
 
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::::I actually learnt my chemistry in a (UK) lab with a wall-poster periodic table that had Hahnium shown on it. But I can't quite remember in what position, nor can I remember enough of the other differences (there being several) from the actual 'official' namings, so cannot be sure exactly what provenance it had. Pre '92, though, which rules out some of the options.
 
::::I actually learnt my chemistry in a (UK) lab with a wall-poster periodic table that had Hahnium shown on it. But I can't quite remember in what position, nor can I remember enough of the other differences (there being several) from the actual 'official' namings, so cannot be sure exactly what provenance it had. Pre '92, though, which rules out some of the options.
 
::::...but memorable enough for me to 'keep an eye out' for the fate of the name in later years. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.243|172.69.43.243]] 21:56, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
 
::::...but memorable enough for me to 'keep an eye out' for the fate of the name in later years. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.43.243|172.69.43.243]] 21:56, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
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:::::Being a Nazi ended it for him. Russians don't like Nazis and wouldn't allow the name to go through. Meitnerium was a carefully chosen slap in the face. I wouldn't count on Hahnium happening any time soon.[[Special:Contributions/172.70.115.185|172.70.115.185]] 14:12, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 
What about the two categories implied by "Ends in a number, let it slumber. Ends in a letter, not much better"? Which elements are in which? -- [[User:Dtgriscom|Dtgriscom]] ([[User talk:Dtgriscom|talk]]) 01:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 
What about the two categories implied by "Ends in a number, let it slumber. Ends in a letter, not much better"? Which elements are in which? -- [[User:Dtgriscom|Dtgriscom]] ([[User talk:Dtgriscom|talk]]) 01:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 
:I'd say "all in both". Any given "fooium" is going to be a reactive element that (especially as you go further down) is nasty to deal with 'raw'. But not as nasty as "fooium-123", which highly suggests a nuclear decay product that will further decay. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.218|172.71.178.218]] 02:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 
:I'd say "all in both". Any given "fooium" is going to be a reactive element that (especially as you go further down) is nasty to deal with 'raw'. But not as nasty as "fooium-123", which highly suggests a nuclear decay product that will further decay. [[Special:Contributions/172.71.178.218|172.71.178.218]] 02:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
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:Actually just overturned a few piles of books to try to find my old (30+ years!) degree-level material to confirm what exactly I recall working with back then, but they're probably stashed away elsewhere. Contemporary online versions do all kinds of things, sometimes seemingly according to abstract whims and clearly there's still no 'official' concensus... Hence I left it at "not all" doing so. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.27|172.70.85.27]] 09:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 
:Actually just overturned a few piles of books to try to find my old (30+ years!) degree-level material to confirm what exactly I recall working with back then, but they're probably stashed away elsewhere. Contemporary online versions do all kinds of things, sometimes seemingly according to abstract whims and clearly there's still no 'official' concensus... Hence I left it at "not all" doing so. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.27|172.70.85.27]] 09:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 
::I mean, "Lanthanide" means "Lanthanum-like". Is lanthanum like itself? It either very definitely is, pretty much pefectly,{{Citation needed}} or it really isn't ''like'' it, for the same reason... (But, whatever the answer, we should probably say that actinide is the opposite for the actinides. To satisfy everyone!) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.141|172.70.85.141]] 12:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
 
::I mean, "Lanthanide" means "Lanthanum-like". Is lanthanum like itself? It either very definitely is, pretty much pefectly,{{Citation needed}} or it really isn't ''like'' it, for the same reason... (But, whatever the answer, we should probably say that actinide is the opposite for the actinides. To satisfy everyone!) [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.141|172.70.85.141]] 12:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
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There should be a map with the elements under the bubbles [[User:Moderator|Moderator]] ([[User talk:Moderator|talk]]) 16:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
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Currently Titanium appears twice in the table. Sebastian --[[Special:Contributions/172.68.110.60|172.68.110.60]] 20:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
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:Fixed.  Some of the elements are split between "groups", but titanium is solidly in the "regular metals". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 15:50, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 +
::Okay, there seems to be some disagreement on this one.  The titanium box (4th row, 4th column) is almost entirely in the "regular metals" region; in fact, the region swells up ''for'' titanium so as to capture most of that box.  Should it be listed in both that region and the "boring alloy metals" region? I don't think so, but ...?  My inclination is to have it in only one group, which is obviously "regular metals". [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 19:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
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I had a bit of time to spare, and I was considering the following either as a reworking of the table or an "indexing" table (make all xkcd main/overlap class names link to the appropriate internal section-headers, so we don't need to squash them up into a narrow column, and can add a "complete list" of elements to as a closing paragraph if that seems best) ...
 +
{{cot|Big table}}
 +
{| class="wikitable sortable"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 +
|-                             
 +
! Element              !! Symbol  !!  Z !!                        Group                            !! Period !! Common Class                            !! xkcd (main class)      !! xkcd (overlap)
 +
|-                             
 +
| Hydrogen            || H      ||  1 || data-sort-value=1    |  1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) || 1      || Hydrogen                                || Slightly Fancy Protons  ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Helium              || He      ||  2 || data-sort-value=18  |  18 (noble gases)                || 1      || Noble gas                                || Lawful Neutral          ||
 +
|-                               
 +
| Lithium              || Li      ||  3 || data-sort-value=1    |  1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) || 2      || Alkali metal                            || Weird Dirt              ||
 +
|-                               
 +
| Beryllium            || Be      ||  4 || data-sort-value=2    |  2 (alkaline earth metals)      || 2      || Alkaline earth metal                    || Weird Dirt              ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Boron                || B      ||  5 || data-sort-value=13  |  13 (boron group)                || 2      || Metalloid                                || Boron (Fool’s Carbon)  ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Carbon              || C      ||  6 || data-sort-value=14  |  14 (carbon group)              || 2      || Carbon group                            || You Are Here            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Nitrogen            || N      ||  7 || data-sort-value=15  |  15 (pnictogens)                || 2      || Pnictogen                                || You Are Here            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Oxygen              || O      ||  8 || data-sort-value=16  |  16 (chalcogens)                || 2      || Chalcogen                                || You Are Here            || Safety Goggles Required
 +
|-                             
 +
| Fluorine            || F      ||  9 || data-sort-value=17  |  17 (halogens)                  || 2      || Halogen gas                              || Safety Goggles Required ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Neon                || Ne      ||  10 || data-sort-value=18  |  18 (noble gases)                || 2      || Noble gas                                || Lawful Neutral          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Sodium              || Na      ||  11 || data-sort-value=1    |  1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) || 3      || Alkali metal                            || Regular Dirt            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Magnesium            || Mg      ||  12 || data-sort-value=2    |  2 (alkaline earth metals)      || 3      || Alkaline earth metal                    || Regular Dirt            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Aluminum (Aluminium) || Al      ||  13 || data-sort-value=13  |  13 (boron group)                || 3      || Boron group                              || Regular Metals          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Silicon              || Si      ||  14 || data-sort-value=14  |  14 (carbon group)              || 3      || Metalloid                                || You Are Here            || Regular Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Phosphorus          || P      ||  15 || data-sort-value=15  |  15 (pnictogens)                || 3      || Pnictogen                                || You Are Here            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Sulfur (Sulphur)    || S      ||  16 || data-sort-value=16  |  16 (chalcogens)                || 3      || Chalcogen                                || Safety Goggles Required || You Are Here
 +
|-                             
 +
| Chlorine            || Cl      ||  17 || data-sort-value=17  |  17 (halogens)                  || 3      || Halogen gas                              || Safety Goggles Required ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Argon                || Ar      ||  18 || data-sort-value=18  |  18 (noble gases)                || 3      || Noble gas                                || Lawful Neutral          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Potassium            || K      ||  19 || data-sort-value=1    |  1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) || 4      || Alkali metal                            || Regular Dirt            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Calcium              || Ca      ||  20 || data-sort-value=2    |  2 (alkaline earth metals)      || 4      || Alkaline earth metal                    || Regular Dirt            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Scandium            || Sc      ||  21 || data-sort-value=3    |  3 (scandium group)            || 4      || Rare earth metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Titanium            || Ti      ||  22 || data-sort-value=4    |  4 (titanium group)            || 4      || Transition metal                        || Regular Metals          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Vanadium            || V      ||  23 || data-sort-value=5    |  5 (vanadium group)            || 4      || Transition metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    || Regular Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Chromium            || Cr      ||  24 || data-sort-value=6    |  6 (chromium group)            || 4      || Transition metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    || Regular Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Manganese            || Mn      ||  25 || data-sort-value=7    |  7 (manganese group)            || 4      || Transition metal                        || Regular Metals          || Boring Alloy Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Iron                || Fe      ||  26 || data-sort-value=8    |  8 (iron group)                || 4      || Transition metal                        || Regular Metals          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Cobalt              || Co      ||  27 || data-sort-value=9    |  9 (cobalt group)              || 4      || Transition metal                        || Regular Metals          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Nickel              || Ni      ||  28 || data-sort-value=10  |  10 (nickel group)              || 4      || Transition metal                        || Regular Metals          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Copper              || Cu      ||  29 || data-sort-value=11  |  11 (copper group)              || 4      || Transition metal                        || Regular Metals          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Zinc                || Zn      ||  30 || data-sort-value=12  |  12 (zinc group)                || 4      || Transition metal                        || Regular Metals          || Weird Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Gallium              || Ga      ||  31 || data-sort-value=13  |  13 (boron group)                || 4      || Boron group                              || Weird Metals            || Regular Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Germanium            || Ge      ||  32 || data-sort-value=14  |  14 (carbon group)              || 4      || Metalloid                                || Weird Metals            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Arsenic              || As      ||  33 || data-sort-value=15  |  15 (pnictogens)                || 4      || Metalloid                                || Murder Weapons          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Selenium            || Se      ||  34 || data-sort-value=16  |  16 (chalcogens)                || 4      || Chalcogen                                || Safety Goggles Required || Murder Weapons
 +
|-                             
 +
| Bromine              || Br      ||  35 || data-sort-value=17  |  17 (halogens)                  || 4      || Halogen liquid                          || Safety Goggles Required ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Krypton              || Kr      ||  36 || data-sort-value=18  |  18 (noble gases)                || 4      || Noble gas                                || Lawful Neutral          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Rubidium            || Rb      ||  37 || data-sort-value=1    |  1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) || 5      || Alkali metal                            || Ends in a Number/Letter ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Strontium            || Sr      ||  38 || data-sort-value=2    |  2 (alkaline earth metals)      || 5      || Alkaline earth metal                    || Ends in a Number/Letter ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Yttrium              || Y      ||  39 || data-sort-value=3    |  3 (scandium group)            || 5      || Rare earth metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Zirconium            || Zr      ||  40 || data-sort-value=4    |  4 (titanium group)            || 5      || Transition metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Niobium              || Nb      ||  41 || data-sort-value=5    |  5 (vanadium group)            || 5      || Refractory metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Molybdenum          || Mo      ||  42 || data-sort-value=6    |  6 (chromium group)            || 5      || Refractory metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Technetium          || Tc      ||  43 || data-sort-value=7    |  7 (manganese group)            || 5      || Transition metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Ruthenium            || Ru      ||  44 || data-sort-value=8    |  8 (iron group)                || 5      || Noble metal                              || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Rhodium              || Rh      ||  45 || data-sort-value=9    |  9 (cobalt group)              || 5      || Noble metal                              || $$$                    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Palladium            || Pa      ||  46 || data-sort-value=10  |  10 (nickel group)              || 5      || Noble metal                              || $$$                    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Silver              || Ag      ||  47 || data-sort-value=11  |  11 (copper group)              || 5      || Noble metal                              || $$$                    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Cadmium              || Cd      ||  48 || data-sort-value=12  |  12 (zinc group)                || 5      || Transition metal                        || Weird Metals            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Indium              || In      ||  49 || data-sort-value=13  |  13 (boron group)                || 5      || Boron group                              || Weird Metals            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Tin                  || Sn      ||  50 || data-sort-value=14  |  14 (carbon group)              || 5      || Carbon group                            || Weird Metals            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Antimony            || Sb      ||  51 || data-sort-value=15  |  15 (pnictogens)                || 5      || Metalloid                                || Murder Weapons          || Weird Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Tellurium            || Te      ||  52 || data-sort-value=16  |  16 (chalcogens)                || 5      || Metalloid                                || Murder Weapons          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Iodine              || In      ||  53 || data-sort-value=17  |  17 (halogens)                  || 5      || Halogen liquid                          || Health Problems        ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Xenon                || Xe      ||  54 || data-sort-value=18  |  18 (noble gases)                || 5      || Noble gas                                || Lawful Neutral          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Cesium (Caesium)    || Cs      ||  55 || data-sort-value=1    |  1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) || 6      || Alkali metal                            || Ends in a Number/Letter ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Barium              || Ba      ||  56 || data-sort-value=2    |  2 (alkaline earth metals)      || 6      || Alkaline earth metal                    || Ends in a Number/Letter ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Lanthanum            || La      ||  57 || data-sort-value=2.01 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Cerium              || Ce      ||  58 || data-sort-value=2.02 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Praseodymium        || Pr      ||  59 || data-sort-value=2.03 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Neodymium            || Nd      ||  60 || data-sort-value=2.04 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Promethium          || Pm      ||  61 || data-sort-value=2.05 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Samarium            || Sm      ||  62 || data-sort-value=2.06 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Europium            || Eu      ||  63 || data-sort-value=2.07 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Gadolinium          || Gd      ||  64 || data-sort-value=2.08 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Terbium              || Tb      ||  65 || data-sort-value=2.09 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Dysprosium          || Dy      ||  66 || data-sort-value=2.10 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Holmium              || Ho      ||  67 || data-sort-value=2.11 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Erbium              || Er      ||  68 || data-sort-value=2.12 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Thulium              || Tm      ||  69 || data-sort-value=2.13 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Ytterbium            || Yb      ||  70 || data-sort-value=2.14 | n/a (f-block)                    || 6      || Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Lutetium            || Lu      ||  71 || data-sort-value=3    |  3 (scandium group)            || 6      || Rare earth metal                        || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Hafnium              || Hf      ||  72 || data-sort-value=4    |  4 (titanium group)            || 6      || Transition metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Tantalum            || Ta      ||  73 || data-sort-value=5    |  5 (vanadium group)            || 6      || Refractory metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Tungsten (Wolfram)  || W      ||  74 || data-sort-value=6    |  6 (chromium group)            || 6      || Refractory metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Rhenium              || Re      ||  75 || data-sort-value=7    |  7 (manganese group)            || 6      || Refractory metal                        || Boring Alloy Metals    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Osmium              || Os      ||  76 || data-sort-value=8    |  8 (iron group)                || 6      || Noble metal                              || Boring Alloy Metals    || $$$
 +
|-                             
 +
| Iridium              || Ir      ||  77 || data-sort-value=9    |  9 (cobalt group)              || 6      || Noble metal                              || $$$                    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Platinum            || Pt      ||  78 || data-sort-value=10  |  10 (nickel group)              || 6      || Noble metal                              || $$$                    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Gold                || Au      ||  79 || data-sort-value=11  |  11 (copper group)              || 6      || Noble metal                              || $$$                    ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Mercury              || Hg      ||  80 || data-sort-value=12  |  12 (zinc group)                || 6      || Liquid transition metal                  || Weird Metals            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Thallium            || Tl      ||  81 || data-sort-value=13  |  13 (boron group)                || 6      || Boron group                              || Murder Weapons          || Weird Metals
 +
|-                             
 +
| Lead                || Pb      ||  82 || data-sort-value=14  |  14 (carbon group)              || 6      || Carbon group                            || Weird Metals            || Murder Weapons
 +
|-                             
 +
| Bismuth              || Bi      ||  83 || data-sort-value=15  |  15 (pnictogens)                || 6      || Pnictogen                                || Murder Weapons          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Polonium            || Po      ||  84 || data-sort-value=16  |  16 (chalcogens)                || 6      || ?Metalloid                              || Murder Weapons          ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Astatine            || At      ||  85 || data-sort-value=17  |  17 (halogens)                  || 6      || ?Halogen metaloid                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Radon                || Rn      ||  86 || data-sort-value=18  |  18 (noble gases)                || 6      || Noble gas                                || Health Problems        ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Francium            || Fr      ||  87 || data-sort-value=1    |  1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) || 7      || Alkali metal                            || Ends in a Number/Letter ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Radium              || Ra      ||  88 || data-sort-value=2    |  2 (alkaline earth metals)      || 7      || Alkaline earth metal                    || Ends in a Number/Letter ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Actinium            || Ac      ||  89 || data-sort-value=2.01 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Thorium              || Th      ||  90 || data-sort-value=2.02 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Protactinium        || Pa      ||  91 || data-sort-value=2.03 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Uranium              || U      ||  92 || data-sort-value=2.04 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Neptunium            || Np      ||  93 || data-sort-value=2.05 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Plutonium            || Pu      ||  94 || data-sort-value=2.06 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Americium            || Am      ||  95 || data-sort-value=2.07 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Curium              || Cm      ||  96 || data-sort-value=2.08 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Berkelium            || Bk      ||  97 || data-sort-value=2.09 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Californium          || Cf      ||  98 || data-sort-value=2.10 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Einsteinium          || Es      ||  99 || data-sort-value=2.11 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Fermium              || Fm      || 100 || data-sort-value=2.12 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Mendelevium          || Md (Mv) || 101 || data-sort-value=2.13 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Nobelium            || No      || 102 || data-sort-value=2.14 | n/a (f-block)                    || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Lawrencium          || Lr (Lw) || 103 || data-sort-value=3    |  3 (scandium group)            || 7      || Actinide (Actinoid)                      || Nobel Prize            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Rutherfordium        || Rf      || 104 || data-sort-value=4    |  4 (titanium group)            || 7      || Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Dubnium              || Db      || 105 || data-sort-value=5    |  5 (vanadium group)            || 7      || Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Seaborgium          || Sg      || 106 || data-sort-value=6    |  6 (chromium group)            || 7      || Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Bohrium              || Bh      || 107 || data-sort-value=7    |  7 (manganese group)            || 7      || Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Hassium              || Hs      || 108 || data-sort-value=8    |  8 (iron group)                || 7      || Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Meitnernium          || Mt      || 109 || data-sort-value=9    |  9 (cobalt group)              || 7      || ?Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Darmstadtium        || Ds      || 110 || data-sort-value=10  |  10 (nickel group)              || 7      || ?Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Roentgenium          || Rg      || 111 || data-sort-value=11  |  11 (copper group)              || 7      || ?Transition metal                        || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Copernicum          || Cn      || 112 || data-sort-value=12  |  12 (zinc group)                || 7      || ?Volatile metal                          || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Nihonium            || Nh      || 113 || data-sort-value=13  |  13 (boron group)                || 7      || ?Post-transition metal                  || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Flerovium            || Fl      || 114 || data-sort-value=14  |  14 (carbon group)              || 7      || ?Metalic gas                            || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Moscovium            || Mc      || 115 || data-sort-value=15  |  15 (pnictogens)                || 7      || ?Post-transition metal                  || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Livermorium          || Lv      || 116 || data-sort-value=16  |  16 (chalcogens)                || 7      || ?Post-transition metal                  || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Tennessine          || Ts      || 117 || data-sort-value=17  |  17 (halogens)                  || 7      || ?Halogen semimetal                      || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|-                             
 +
| Oganesson            || Og      || 118 || data-sort-value=18  |  18 (noble gases)                || 7      || ?Noble gas/solid metal                  || Don’t Bother            ||
 +
|}                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   
 +
{{cob}}
 +
...some notes:
 +
*I did play with rowspanning, but my added sortability didn't make it worthwhile. It breaks the rowspanning then doesn't remake them, upon sorting. And doesn't make a span out of things sorted into connection.
 +
*I also tried a few things out in Common Class. It all started off as Group id (except for Lanths/Acts), then I started going fancy.
 +
**There are arguably some classifications that work well ''or'' against the Munrovian definition, interesting in both cases.
 +
**Maybe I should have done a "Transition metal (special subclass)" type of thing, or stuck with "x-block" variations, or something with the standard metal/non-metal/semimetal thing.
 +
**There's also the option of background colouring the lines by some specification or other. But I couldn't decide what scheme to use that for.
 +
*For "main" xkcd classification, I gave whatever (seemed to) cover most of the element tile. For "overlap" I gave only those secondary classifications that did more than ''apparently'' accidentally stray over the line (e.g. on the way to/from covering other tiles, diagonally away from where they most obviously applied).
 +
*I didn't bother to check that every classification I assigned was true (and/or intentionally funny, of course). Nor if it matched the existing table's assumptions.
 +
*Where there's (common/notable) alternate forms of things I ()ed the form that I don't think Randall uses, but others certainly do (or have). I'm personally a Sulphur/Aluminium person, myself, e.g., and my unasked-for spellcheck really doesn't like the alternatives, but I'm not a Wolfram one.
 +
*As I was making sure the Group column sorted nicely, I sneakily gave the Lanths/Acts 'pseudo group' numbers to perhaps keep them/restore them to the correct relative position without ''necessarily'' relying upon an Atomic Number sort. You can also do anything you like with the non-sort display item for that column ("Group IIb"/etc), that way.
 +
Anyway, now it's here, if anyone wants to do anything more with it. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.74.24|162.158.74.24]] 00:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
 +
 +
Can we all agree that silicon got done dirty? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.231.87|172.70.231.87]] 18:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)
 +
 +
I initially read the 'don't bother learning them' line as saying that these elements are "hard to pronounce in large quantities". Which, funnily enough, isn't far wrong.[[Special:Contributions/172.69.194.121|172.69.194.121]] 09:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
 +
:It helps if one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcS3NOQnsQM sets them to music]. :-) [[User:BunsenH|BunsenH]] ([[User talk:BunsenH|talk]]) 16:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 16:02, 2 April 2024


Working on the table catalog. For ones that are part of multiple groups, I used the one that takes up the most. For split ones like Mn, I put them both. For Cs, please don't change it because Randall's American and that's how he would think of it. I know what all the elements are so please don't edit conflict me. --Purah #126 (talk) 20:50, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm done. Again, please don't have an edit war over cesium and aluminum. --Purah #126 (talk) 20:50, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
What about Hahnium? ;) 172.70.163.31 20:54, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
That's only for some people in Berkeley, if someone can find evidence that he's used it before in a comic then sure lol. --Purah #126 (talk) 21:12, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
At times, dubnium, hassium, meitnerium and darmstadtium were considered for naming after Otto Hahn, and it reached several stages of international deliberation.
I actually learnt my chemistry in a (UK) lab with a wall-poster periodic table that had Hahnium shown on it. But I can't quite remember in what position, nor can I remember enough of the other differences (there being several) from the actual 'official' namings, so cannot be sure exactly what provenance it had. Pre '92, though, which rules out some of the options.
...but memorable enough for me to 'keep an eye out' for the fate of the name in later years. 172.69.43.243 21:56, 29 March 2024 (UTC)
Being a Nazi ended it for him. Russians don't like Nazis and wouldn't allow the name to go through. Meitnerium was a carefully chosen slap in the face. I wouldn't count on Hahnium happening any time soon.172.70.115.185 14:12, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

What about the two categories implied by "Ends in a number, let it slumber. Ends in a letter, not much better"? Which elements are in which? -- Dtgriscom (talk) 01:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I'd say "all in both". Any given "fooium" is going to be a reactive element that (especially as you go further down) is nasty to deal with 'raw'. But not as nasty as "fooium-123", which highly suggests a nuclear decay product that will further decay. 172.71.178.218 02:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Correcting some errors in the stuff about radon led me to add perhaps too much information about how it's formed, how it accumulates in basements, and how it causes health problems. I spent a few years in a lab whose primary research focus was on uranium mine waste and its consequences, so I've got some bias and blind spots. Others may want to edit it down. BunsenH (talk) 01:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

FWIW, the idea that radon collects in basements because of its density is a myth. It mixes with air; any variation with altitude is negligible, just as xenon and CFCs don't collect at low altitudes. BunsenH (talk) 04:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I'm too lazy to add this myself, but should there be something in the explanation about the overlap between "weird metals" and "murder weapons? (I checked over it quickly, correct me if there is already something about it) EDIT - just realized this could be due to mercury being in "murder weapons" - Thexkcdnerd 02:02, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

There should be a comment on the fact that people have included that last row inside the table, [such as here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_periodic_table#Predicted_structures_of_an_extended_periodic_table). It makes it really long, but there's a pretty basic pattern you can extend endlessly. Every other row, you lengthen it by four more than the previous pairs of rows. Though I understand the way orbitals work that make that useful doesn't really apply after you get too far down. DanielLC (talk) 03:23, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

That has been done (not by me), now. But I also added (along the way) something about how not all PTs actually shift La and Ac out of the table. Though, honestly, I actually find it darn unusual (in my experience) to do that, often with those two under Sc and Y, and then the 'floating' groups go from up to Lu and Lr, perhaps starting with a 'repeat hint' of the eponymous elements, then Ce and Th. Otherwise, a split indicated between Group 2 and 3 and the two 14-long sets (La to Yb and Ac to No) with Lu and Lr group-3ed (more accurate to f-block?).
Actually just overturned a few piles of books to try to find my old (30+ years!) degree-level material to confirm what exactly I recall working with back then, but they're probably stashed away elsewhere. Contemporary online versions do all kinds of things, sometimes seemingly according to abstract whims and clearly there's still no 'official' concensus... Hence I left it at "not all" doing so. 172.70.85.27 09:33, 30 March 2024 (UTC)
I mean, "Lanthanide" means "Lanthanum-like". Is lanthanum like itself? It either very definitely is, pretty much pefectly,[citation needed] or it really isn't like it, for the same reason... (But, whatever the answer, we should probably say that actinide is the opposite for the actinides. To satisfy everyone!) 172.70.85.141 12:39, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

There should be a map with the elements under the bubbles Moderator (talk) 16:42, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Currently Titanium appears twice in the table. Sebastian --172.68.110.60 20:36, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Fixed. Some of the elements are split between "groups", but titanium is solidly in the "regular metals". BunsenH (talk) 15:50, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
Okay, there seems to be some disagreement on this one. The titanium box (4th row, 4th column) is almost entirely in the "regular metals" region; in fact, the region swells up for titanium so as to capture most of that box. Should it be listed in both that region and the "boring alloy metals" region? I don't think so, but ...? My inclination is to have it in only one group, which is obviously "regular metals". BunsenH (talk) 19:59, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

I had a bit of time to spare, and I was considering the following either as a reworking of the table or an "indexing" table (make all xkcd main/overlap class names link to the appropriate internal section-headers, so we don't need to squash them up into a narrow column, and can add a "complete list" of elements to as a closing paragraph if that seems best) ...

Big table
Element Symbol Z Group Period Common Class xkcd (main class) xkcd (overlap)
Hydrogen H 1 1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) 1 Hydrogen Slightly Fancy Protons
Helium He 2 18 (noble gases) 1 Noble gas Lawful Neutral
Lithium Li 3 1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) 2 Alkali metal Weird Dirt
Beryllium Be 4 2 (alkaline earth metals) 2 Alkaline earth metal Weird Dirt
Boron B 5 13 (boron group) 2 Metalloid Boron (Fool’s Carbon)
Carbon C 6 14 (carbon group) 2 Carbon group You Are Here
Nitrogen N 7 15 (pnictogens) 2 Pnictogen You Are Here
Oxygen O 8 16 (chalcogens) 2 Chalcogen You Are Here Safety Goggles Required
Fluorine F 9 17 (halogens) 2 Halogen gas Safety Goggles Required
Neon Ne 10 18 (noble gases) 2 Noble gas Lawful Neutral
Sodium Na 11 1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) 3 Alkali metal Regular Dirt
Magnesium Mg 12 2 (alkaline earth metals) 3 Alkaline earth metal Regular Dirt
Aluminum (Aluminium) Al 13 13 (boron group) 3 Boron group Regular Metals
Silicon Si 14 14 (carbon group) 3 Metalloid You Are Here Regular Metals
Phosphorus P 15 15 (pnictogens) 3 Pnictogen You Are Here
Sulfur (Sulphur) S 16 16 (chalcogens) 3 Chalcogen Safety Goggles Required You Are Here
Chlorine Cl 17 17 (halogens) 3 Halogen gas Safety Goggles Required
Argon Ar 18 18 (noble gases) 3 Noble gas Lawful Neutral
Potassium K 19 1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) 4 Alkali metal Regular Dirt
Calcium Ca 20 2 (alkaline earth metals) 4 Alkaline earth metal Regular Dirt
Scandium Sc 21 3 (scandium group) 4 Rare earth metal Boring Alloy Metals
Titanium Ti 22 4 (titanium group) 4 Transition metal Regular Metals
Vanadium V 23 5 (vanadium group) 4 Transition metal Boring Alloy Metals Regular Metals
Chromium Cr 24 6 (chromium group) 4 Transition metal Boring Alloy Metals Regular Metals
Manganese Mn 25 7 (manganese group) 4 Transition metal Regular Metals Boring Alloy Metals
Iron Fe 26 8 (iron group) 4 Transition metal Regular Metals
Cobalt Co 27 9 (cobalt group) 4 Transition metal Regular Metals
Nickel Ni 28 10 (nickel group) 4 Transition metal Regular Metals
Copper Cu 29 11 (copper group) 4 Transition metal Regular Metals
Zinc Zn 30 12 (zinc group) 4 Transition metal Regular Metals Weird Metals
Gallium Ga 31 13 (boron group) 4 Boron group Weird Metals Regular Metals
Germanium Ge 32 14 (carbon group) 4 Metalloid Weird Metals
Arsenic As 33 15 (pnictogens) 4 Metalloid Murder Weapons
Selenium Se 34 16 (chalcogens) 4 Chalcogen Safety Goggles Required Murder Weapons
Bromine Br 35 17 (halogens) 4 Halogen liquid Safety Goggles Required
Krypton Kr 36 18 (noble gases) 4 Noble gas Lawful Neutral
Rubidium Rb 37 1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) 5 Alkali metal Ends in a Number/Letter
Strontium Sr 38 2 (alkaline earth metals) 5 Alkaline earth metal Ends in a Number/Letter
Yttrium Y 39 3 (scandium group) 5 Rare earth metal Boring Alloy Metals
Zirconium Zr 40 4 (titanium group) 5 Transition metal Boring Alloy Metals
Niobium Nb 41 5 (vanadium group) 5 Refractory metal Boring Alloy Metals
Molybdenum Mo 42 6 (chromium group) 5 Refractory metal Boring Alloy Metals
Technetium Tc 43 7 (manganese group) 5 Transition metal Boring Alloy Metals
Ruthenium Ru 44 8 (iron group) 5 Noble metal Boring Alloy Metals
Rhodium Rh 45 9 (cobalt group) 5 Noble metal $$$
Palladium Pa 46 10 (nickel group) 5 Noble metal $$$
Silver Ag 47 11 (copper group) 5 Noble metal $$$
Cadmium Cd 48 12 (zinc group) 5 Transition metal Weird Metals
Indium In 49 13 (boron group) 5 Boron group Weird Metals
Tin Sn 50 14 (carbon group) 5 Carbon group Weird Metals
Antimony Sb 51 15 (pnictogens) 5 Metalloid Murder Weapons Weird Metals
Tellurium Te 52 16 (chalcogens) 5 Metalloid Murder Weapons
Iodine In 53 17 (halogens) 5 Halogen liquid Health Problems
Xenon Xe 54 18 (noble gases) 5 Noble gas Lawful Neutral
Cesium (Caesium) Cs 55 1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) 6 Alkali metal Ends in a Number/Letter
Barium Ba 56 2 (alkaline earth metals) 6 Alkaline earth metal Ends in a Number/Letter
Lanthanum La 57 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Cerium Ce 58 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Praseodymium Pr 59 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Neodymium Nd 60 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Promethium Pm 61 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Samarium Sm 62 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Europium Eu 63 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Gadolinium Gd 64 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Terbium Tb 65 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Dysprosium Dy 66 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Holmium Ho 67 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Erbium Er 68 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Thulium Tm 69 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Ytterbium Yb 70 n/a (f-block) 6 Lanthanide (Lanthanoid)/Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Lutetium Lu 71 3 (scandium group) 6 Rare earth metal Nobel Prize
Hafnium Hf 72 4 (titanium group) 6 Transition metal Boring Alloy Metals
Tantalum Ta 73 5 (vanadium group) 6 Refractory metal Boring Alloy Metals
Tungsten (Wolfram) W 74 6 (chromium group) 6 Refractory metal Boring Alloy Metals
Rhenium Re 75 7 (manganese group) 6 Refractory metal Boring Alloy Metals
Osmium Os 76 8 (iron group) 6 Noble metal Boring Alloy Metals $$$
Iridium Ir 77 9 (cobalt group) 6 Noble metal $$$
Platinum Pt 78 10 (nickel group) 6 Noble metal $$$
Gold Au 79 11 (copper group) 6 Noble metal $$$
Mercury Hg 80 12 (zinc group) 6 Liquid transition metal Weird Metals
Thallium Tl 81 13 (boron group) 6 Boron group Murder Weapons Weird Metals
Lead Pb 82 14 (carbon group) 6 Carbon group Weird Metals Murder Weapons
Bismuth Bi 83 15 (pnictogens) 6 Pnictogen Murder Weapons
Polonium Po 84 16 (chalcogens) 6  ?Metalloid Murder Weapons
Astatine At 85 17 (halogens) 6  ?Halogen metaloid Don’t Bother
Radon Rn 86 18 (noble gases) 6 Noble gas Health Problems
Francium Fr 87 1 (hydrogen and alkali metals) 7 Alkali metal Ends in a Number/Letter
Radium Ra 88 2 (alkaline earth metals) 7 Alkaline earth metal Ends in a Number/Letter
Actinium Ac 89 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Thorium Th 90 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Protactinium Pa 91 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Uranium U 92 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Neptunium Np 93 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Plutonium Pu 94 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Americium Am 95 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Curium Cm 96 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Berkelium Bk 97 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Californium Cf 98 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Einsteinium Es 99 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Fermium Fm 100 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Mendelevium Md (Mv) 101 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Nobelium No 102 n/a (f-block) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Lawrencium Lr (Lw) 103 3 (scandium group) 7 Actinide (Actinoid) Nobel Prize
Rutherfordium Rf 104 4 (titanium group) 7 Transition metal Don’t Bother
Dubnium Db 105 5 (vanadium group) 7 Transition metal Don’t Bother
Seaborgium Sg 106 6 (chromium group) 7 Transition metal Don’t Bother
Bohrium Bh 107 7 (manganese group) 7 Transition metal Don’t Bother
Hassium Hs 108 8 (iron group) 7 Transition metal Don’t Bother
Meitnernium Mt 109 9 (cobalt group) 7  ?Transition metal Don’t Bother
Darmstadtium Ds 110 10 (nickel group) 7  ?Transition metal Don’t Bother
Roentgenium Rg 111 11 (copper group) 7  ?Transition metal Don’t Bother
Copernicum Cn 112 12 (zinc group) 7  ?Volatile metal Don’t Bother
Nihonium Nh 113 13 (boron group) 7  ?Post-transition metal Don’t Bother
Flerovium Fl 114 14 (carbon group) 7  ?Metalic gas Don’t Bother
Moscovium Mc 115 15 (pnictogens) 7  ?Post-transition metal Don’t Bother
Livermorium Lv 116 16 (chalcogens) 7  ?Post-transition metal Don’t Bother
Tennessine Ts 117 17 (halogens) 7  ?Halogen semimetal Don’t Bother
Oganesson Og 118 18 (noble gases) 7  ?Noble gas/solid metal Don’t Bother

...some notes:

  • I did play with rowspanning, but my added sortability didn't make it worthwhile. It breaks the rowspanning then doesn't remake them, upon sorting. And doesn't make a span out of things sorted into connection.
  • I also tried a few things out in Common Class. It all started off as Group id (except for Lanths/Acts), then I started going fancy.
    • There are arguably some classifications that work well or against the Munrovian definition, interesting in both cases.
    • Maybe I should have done a "Transition metal (special subclass)" type of thing, or stuck with "x-block" variations, or something with the standard metal/non-metal/semimetal thing.
    • There's also the option of background colouring the lines by some specification or other. But I couldn't decide what scheme to use that for.
  • For "main" xkcd classification, I gave whatever (seemed to) cover most of the element tile. For "overlap" I gave only those secondary classifications that did more than apparently accidentally stray over the line (e.g. on the way to/from covering other tiles, diagonally away from where they most obviously applied).
  • I didn't bother to check that every classification I assigned was true (and/or intentionally funny, of course). Nor if it matched the existing table's assumptions.
  • Where there's (common/notable) alternate forms of things I ()ed the form that I don't think Randall uses, but others certainly do (or have). I'm personally a Sulphur/Aluminium person, myself, e.g., and my unasked-for spellcheck really doesn't like the alternatives, but I'm not a Wolfram one.
  • As I was making sure the Group column sorted nicely, I sneakily gave the Lanths/Acts 'pseudo group' numbers to perhaps keep them/restore them to the correct relative position without necessarily relying upon an Atomic Number sort. You can also do anything you like with the non-sort display item for that column ("Group IIb"/etc), that way.

Anyway, now it's here, if anyone wants to do anything more with it. 162.158.74.24 00:40, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Can we all agree that silicon got done dirty? 172.70.231.87 18:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I initially read the 'don't bother learning them' line as saying that these elements are "hard to pronounce in large quantities". Which, funnily enough, isn't far wrong.172.69.194.121 09:04, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

It helps if one sets them to music. :-) BunsenH (talk) 16:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
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