Editing Talk:Header text

;Localized versions

Currently to me the header text is in German (as I live in Germany):
:Triff Randall Munroe in Berlin am 15. Oktober 2019!
:Hier die deutsche Ausgabe vorbestellen!
(Meet Randall Munroe in Berlin on 15th of October 2019! Preorder the german version here) where "Hier" (here) is a link.
4 odd things I noticed about this:
*It mentions the German version, but not the German verison of what. The book isn't even mentioned.
*When I (re)load the page, for a moment I get the image about winning a stick-figure-sketch of myself.
*XKCD does not use means like other pages (e.g. [[713: GeoIP]] to identify my language. As I am using a swedish VPN, I usually get advertisements in swedish (and redirections to swedish homepages, etc.). Maybe it is my browser settings which are set to German. Can someone identify the method used?
*The link leads to "https://www.xkcd.com/%22https://www.randomhouse.de/Buch/HOW-TO-Wie-man-s-hinkriegt/Randall-Munroe/Penguin/e547637.rhd?utm_source=autorenblog&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=how_to\%22" - a 404 page. (getting rid of the part before the 2nd https gets you to the page of the german publisher.
Someone got an idea on how to put this into the wiki properly? Are there other language versions as well? --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:38, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah there is, in the UK the text changes to "I'll be coming to the UK for [https://xkcd.com/how-to/#tourdates the book tour]." There is Javascript in the page which sends a request to https://c.xkcd.com/how-to/news which is simply redirected (for me to https://xkcd.com/ukNews ) presumably based on GeoIP, definitely not a browser locale setting. Not sure how you would get them all, maybe iterate country codes through the start of the URL? I tried deNews which worked. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.34.172|162.158.34.172]] 17:57, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

;Black lives matter

As a note to whoever archieves this (I don't have the time to do it properly myself right now), today I noticed the first time, that the header text, which I think was empty recently changed to a cueball stating "black lives matter" and a link "how to help" to joincampaignzero.org. It might have been up for a few days. --[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

{{done}}; sorry I didn't notice your post here on the talk page before adding it. It seems like we should feature this article page more prominently somehow so people become aware of it. I'm not sure how that should be accomplished. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:00, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
:No need to be sorry. I could've done it myself, but there seems to be (as you mention in the post below) a quite formal structure to the page, and currently I don't find the time to spend as much time on this wiki as I used to, so instead I just thought I'd put together a note, in case it is noticed in the future, to then have a rough starting date.--[[User:Lupo|Lupo]] ([[User talk:Lupo|talk]]) 06:01, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

;Formatting this page as a visual gallery?

It seems like there would be a lot of value in having this page as a visual archive of all of the header illustrations, not merely reducing them to plain text. Is there a reason that approach was not chosen, and are there any thoughts about how best to format and manage it? [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 19:01, 9 June 2020 (UTC)
:I guess it is because it is a much larger task to include all those images. But feel free to begin. I have created most of he text on this page, so I have already used a lot of time. There are links to the web archive where they can be seen. This was seen by me as a transcript of these, so it is possible to search for text bites. It will be a very long page to load if you include pictures directly here as well. But a link to the images placed in another page could be a possibility. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:53, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

;Recent BLM edits

I disagree with most of [[:User:Kynde]]'s [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=xkcd_Header_text&oldid=194829 edits] from just now:
* Links to "Black Lives Matter" should remain to the url https://blacklivesmatter.com/  rather than hiding it behind an anchor, as [https://blacklivesmatter.com/ Black Lives Matter], because "Black Lives Matter" is not a clear unambiguous entity, and where the point is to show the URL, we should do so.
* That necessarily implies https://joincampaignzero.org should get the same treatment. 
* By removing the June 17 section and combining into the June 3 section, it makes no sense to now say "The link goes to" and list where it went on June 3–16 but went elsewhere from June 17–present.
* "Fill it in when it changes" just looks bad. It is a comment to editors, not readers, and the wiki is for readers. It should be deleted or restored to a comment.

I would make all of these changes, but they have the appearance of edit warring, so I wanted to raise them here first. Thank you. [[User:JohnHawkinson|JohnHawkinson]] ([[User talk:JohnHawkinson|talk]]) 18:02, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
:I just tried to use the same format I have used on all the other changes to header texts over the last couple of years. I have also inserted link like this before. I can see this matter is much more sensitive than any previously used in the header (or at least where any noticed this page.). If you feel strongly about this, then please feel free to change it back, or change my edits somehow. I would prefer this entry does not diverge from the format of all the others, but since this header means a lot to many people, I will not change it back if you think it should be formatted differently than the rest. If you really wish, undo my changes, I will not redo them then. But I think this is just the same header, with a new link and thus did not warrant a new entry. I have done similar with other headers where just a small thing changes (yes I know the link is the important part here, and thus not a small change, but it did not change the header text or image!) --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 07:57, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

;Ideas about the Jan 31, 2022 countdown?
It seems like the countdown's code is on github: https://github.com/munvoseli/xkcd-countdown
I can't seem to find any hints there what it's about, though.
--[[Special:Contributions/162.158.159.29|162.158.159.29]] 13:01, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
Nevermind, that's just the code of a progress tracker at https://munvoseli.github.io/xkcd-countdown/ .
--[[Special:Contributions/172.70.90.173|172.70.90.173]] 13:19, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

;1047

Comic 1047 (Approximations) has unique header text. [[Special:Contributions/172.70.110.245|172.70.110.245]] 16:12, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

;Missing "A Smarter Planet comics unique header text

The [https://web.archive.org/web/20190102070937/https://xkcd.com/asmarterplanet archived page of xkcd.com/asmarterplanet] shows this header text: "Bonus xkcd comics done for IBM's "[http://asmarterplanet.com/ A Smarter Planet]" initiative.", and it's missing fromt the page --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 09:10, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

;Word salad
This sentence in the header is not comprehensible: "In recent times there has been very long between the old go to text has been used for extended periods though." I'm not actually sure enough what it means to correct it. [[User:Nitpicking|Nitpicking]] ([[User talk:Nitpicking|talk]]) 14:15, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
:I'm guessing something like "In recent times there has '''not''' been very long between '''changes. T'''he old go'''-'''to text has been used for extended periods''',''' though."
:i.e., there have been rapid turn-arounds (to a topical update, then back to 'normal'). But, more time than not, it tends to sit on a more general non-topical message.
:I've not actually checked if this is true, or what edits might have been incrementally made to saladise the words that are there. [[Special:Contributions/172.69.195.200|172.69.195.200]] 15:33, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
<span id="anc"></span>
;Comic-specific section incomplete

The section on comic-specific headers seems to be missing many examples. I found quite a few from just a couple minutes of browsing random comics (405, 432, 433, 826, 896), so I suspect a thorough search would turn up a lot more. [[Special:Contributions/162.158.146.136|162.158.146.136]] 15:21, 3 July 2023 (UTC)
:Unfortunately you're right. This page needs much more attention, I added an incomplete tag. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:31, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

After crawling the API, I have what I believe is a comprehensive [https://gist.github.com/conjuncts/22e5da17266031775f93336f041456b3 gist of comic-specific headers]. I think this could be turned into a category? [[User:Conjuncts|Conjuncts]] ([[User talk:Conjuncts|talk]]) 02:45, 9 June 2025 (UTC)

:Holy shit this is huge! I @'ed Kynde. Thanks so much! Are there any other magic things you can do with the API? This could make the work much easier for everyone! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:38, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
::Great, how many do we miss in the current version? --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 09:20, 13 June 2025 (UTC)

:::We are missing exactly 33. There are 56 total and we've only explained 23. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 12:34, 13 June 2025 (UTC)


----
{{TOC}}Note: I moved over the discussion page from my [[User talk:FaviFake|talk page]], which is where the project was organized. The topic below (but not the other topics) was originally created on [[User talk:FaviFake]]. Thanks! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:11, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

----

== Restructuring [[Header text]] as a table ==

<!--==Is that a challenge?==-->
"yeah, best not suggest that..." - 162.158.216.41

"Nobody is ever going to do that by hand." - FaviFake

Let's just say.... [[Countdown in header text]] was just a warm-up.

bet. [[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 21:00, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:Oh jeez no way. No way man. That'd be incredible. And insane. hahaha
:But seriously, if you really want to do this, feel free to shoot me a message! [[Header text]] is a huge beast, and I think we could even redesign it completely like what if. Imagine a huge table, sortable by date, comic number, alphabetical order of header text, with a ton of templates to manage...
:Ok the last one isn't tempting. But seriously we could turn it into the most beautiful list of header texts the world has ever seen! I'm already excited! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:12, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
::I already got the first header text done! The table idea sounds super fun though. I'm on board. [[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 21:16, 22 April 2025 (UTC)
:::Shoot you were so fast i didn't even see it! Ok we need to seriously think about it now. A few questions come to mind:
:::#How many columns (date, ? What are all the possible things we can display in a useful way that are common to every header text?
:::##How do we handle the section titles? We should definitely use a template to keep the <nowiki>[[#Anchor links]]</nowiki>, but should we keep the ad-hoc section titles?
:::#How many tables? Two tables for comic specific and general changes, or just 1 mega table?
:::#We definitely need a template to <span style="font-variant: small-caps; font-weight: 500; font-size: 16px; width: 760px; line-height: 150%;" class="plainlinks">mimic the all caps font that Randall uses</span>. Ideas for what else it could do (like contain parts of the table code, color the cell background...)?
:::#Would it be useful if some columns were color-coded? Like on what if? ("back to standard text", "what if promotion", "xkcd store updates", ...)?
:::I have so many questions! If anyone who's reading or watchlisted this talk page wants to chime in and suggest anything at all please do! I'll go sleep now, I guess we'll organise tomorrow? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:38, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Sounds good. Date as a column probably won't work because of stuff like permanence. 'Timeframe'(e.g. temporary/permanent) could work though. I guess it could look something like this for comic-specific:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Comic !! Timeframe !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}
::::And this could be used for the global headers:
{| class="wikitable"
|-
! Date !! Header text !! Explanation !! Purpose
|}

::::I think we should do two tables, with a small blurb before each one explaining what 'comic-specific' means. For the global header text, 'timeframe' could be replaced with 'date'. Color-sorting does sound good (that would be what the column 'purpose' does). 
::::'comic' would just be like '2916: Machine'. 'Header text' is just what the text says. 'Explanation' is self-explanatory. 'Purpose' documents the reason. 
::::For the color codes, we could do 'book promotion', 'Store updates', 'Credits' (e.g. The supporter credits on the April Fools' Comics), maybe fundraisers, he's done those.
::::I made a test table, with most of the wikitext taken from the what if chapters table and the help:table article on Wikipedia [[Testing area | here]]
::::Have a good night! [[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 22:23, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Oh and also I got another one done heehee [[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 22:27, 22 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Nummer tree dun. I made a little test table so we can experiment with it without putting it on the actual page ([[Testing area | over here!]][[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 15:55, 23 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::Hey this is great! I'll reply tomorrow cuz I don't have time now but it seems to me you might be deleting some stuff that's actually worth keeping. For example, in [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=next&oldid=374464 this] and [https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php?title=Header_text&diff=prev&oldid=374464 this edit] I thought most of the info you removed could be useful. But as i said i don't have much time, I'll read and reply tomorrow. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 16:19, 23 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yeah these columns sound good! We could also add "Comic" to the global one, to mark which comic was up when it changed. We should definitely use a template for Comic, so we can link to the explanation, create an automatic #Anchor link tag, and also link to xkcd.com to view the header. It could be the same template, and the first parameter switches between the "global header text" (1) and the "comic-specific header text" (2) modes.
::::::I'm however more and more concerned with the amout of time it would take to rewrite EVERYTHING. If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and to sort, I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former. Does this sound good Dollar?
::::::I removed the rewritten ones and moved them to the testing page to avoid losing info. If we want to do what we did for what if?, we have to use another page until it's ready. I told Kynde about this page to let her know, since she's the main contributor on [[Header text]]. Here's what I imagine it could look like:

::::::This would be for '''comic-specific''':
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number |  Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" |  Timeframe
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text |  Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" |  Explanation
! colspan="4"|                                  Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Fundraiser
|-
| [[472: House of Pancakes]]<br><br>{{xkcd|472|''(View the header text on xkcd.com)''}} || Permanent || <span style="font-variant: small-caps; font-weight: 500; font-size: 16px; width: 760px; line-height: 150%;" class="plainlinks">(Today's comic is a parody of '''[https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mark-Z-Danielewski/dp/0375703764 House of Leaves]'''.)</span> || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || || {{Yes}} ||
|}

::::::And this could be used for the '''global headers''':
This is for comic-specific:
{| class="sortable wikitable"
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" |  Appeared on...
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=number |  Comic
! rowspan="2" scope="col" data-sort-type=text |  Header text
! rowspan="2" scope="col" class="unsortable" |  Explanation
! colspan="4"|                                  Purpose
|-
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Book Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Store Promotion
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Credits
! scope="col" data-sort-type=number |           Fundraiser
|-
|| 01-01-2009 || {{xkcd|472|''View archived page of the header text''}}<br><br>(This global header appeared while [[123: Example comic]] was up.) || <span style="font-variant: small-caps; font-weight: 500; font-size: 16px; width: 760px; line-height: 150%;" class="plainlinks">Hey all, the new tshirts at the example [[Store|xkcd store]] are now available!</span> || This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.|| || {{Yes}} || ||
|}

::::::The first 3 collumns (except Timeframe and Appeared on) would use a custom-made template which would only need (1) the number: Name of the comic and (2) the header text to make it look all caps. Thoughts?--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:42, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::::This looks great! Good job with the font, looks incredible! It does seem to me that maybe we could shorten the 'purpose' category into one column, with different fill colors for different purposes. That way, the cell would contain the purpose instead of the word 'yes'. Also, the purpose would be in the cell instead of the headers. The tables are super long, especially with global headers, so the purpose being there would prevent people from needing to scroll all the way to the top to figure out which category it is. [[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 15:55, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Yeah you're right that'd be too long. But if we do that idk how people will be able to sort tha table? Is there a better way that keeps sorting and is compact? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 17:08, 24 April 2025 (UTC)]

::::::::I wonder if there's a way to sort by color? That way they could sort by book promotion/store promotion etc. first? [[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 17:24, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::You can't sort by non-content formatting of any kind ''per se'', but if you use [https://m.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Sortable_tables#Specifying_a_sort_key a data-sort-value=] alongside the cell's pre-content formatting, associated to it either by (careful) manual matching or by the same procedural method that procedurally set the background hue, then that column can be made to sort ''as if'' by colour. e.g., whatever makes a cell red also gives it <code>data-sort-value=0</code>, whatever makes it green gives <code>=1</code>, etc. (Though would be good to further refine the value, in such a case, to be integer+decimals, such that the decimals produce a further logical sorting ''within'' any given run of hue, if that is in any way more logical than not worrying about it.) [[Special:Contributions/141.101.99.130|141.101.99.130]] 17:58, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::Alternatively, we could make it so everything is shown in one unsortable column, but it could expand into multiple sortable columns like the graphs you made. I will also say that I absolutely suck at basi--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)cally any wikitext more advanced than creating a table. This is the reason it depends whether I do the repetitive work. [[User:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|DollarStoreBa&#39;al]] ([[User talk:DollarStoreBa&#39;al|talk]]) 17:28, 24 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::::I'm gonna start to bring explanations over and add them to the table on the sandbox page. The project continues! --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]]<sup>[[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]]</sup> 18:57, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Oh ok you're just going for it! I wanted to make sure everything was ready and decided before starting, just so we don't have to lose our work if we change our minds later! For example, I'm not really sure what "permanent" and temporary means for the comic specific?
:::::::::Also, I thought of something for the sorting of purpose. We could use extremely narrow columns, just one letter, and also colorthe cell? And for clarity we could say "C<nowiki><br></nowiki>R" instead of the full "credits" to avoid wasting space? Like the one in [[1608:_Hoverboard#Table_with_references]]? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 20:53, 24 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::'Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release, while 'temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header. I think the narrow columns are a good idea, but I don't really see where they would be used. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]]<sup>[[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]]<sup>[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices]</sup></sup> 03:38, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
{{Outdent|::::::::::}}
Hmm.

> ''Permanent' basically just means that the header text has always been there since the comic's release.

This i understand; makes sense! Maybe could be reworded.

> ''temporary' means that the header text was only up for a shorter period of time before being replaced by a typical header.

I'm not sure I understand this? Don't comic-specific header texts (let's call them CS from now on) never expire? I thought they overrode the global headers (GL).

Anyways, still awaiting input from Kynde on this. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:02, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:Hi... Was alerted to this by FaviFake.
:Yes it is my baby, anything with the design of the xkcd page was made by me to begin with. And I have done a huge job finding the different regular header text in the archive. 
:I do think a table could be good. However, the current version means you have a chance of jumping to a specific header just by looking in the TOC. A table would make this very difficult. Also there are quite a lot of info for some of these header text, and it could be hard to get into the table.
:I have also done quite a lot to make a transcript with descriptions of images etc. And would hate to see that go for a table. And it will fill quite a lot in the table.
:I certainly think the permanent header text should have their own section. Question is if they should have their own page. So there is Header Text (the current page) with a link to a new page with Permanent Header texts. 
:Not sure there are many individual header text that was not permanent. So I think the permanent column is not needed, especially since I do not think we should mix the permanent with the real header text! But I still think a table of the permanent should have a date, the day they first appeared. And in a table this would be useful to sort in the order they came out.
:For the not permanent I think there should also be a end date. From date and end date. Maybe a duration calculated from this.
:Not quite sure what we would sort on... But if it should be sort-able, then the last column with purpose, could just be a single word, so you can sort on Store, Promotion, etc. Then it would only take up one short column.
:I'm not going to help with the actual work of moving to a table. But if you manage to do it in a smooth way that do not loose all the information I have gathered and the transcripts I have made, then go for it. --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 12:47, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::''(i wrote this response before Dollar and IP commented.)''
::Thank you!
::> ''The current version means you have a chance of jumping to a specific header just by looking in the TOC. A table would make this very difficult.
::This is true, but this can easily be fixed using a template. For example, if you go to [[What If? chapters#123]] right now, the link will bring you directly to the table row for #123, even though there isn't a heading! The same is true if you use the name of the article, like [[What If? chapters#Cassini]] brings you to "Cassini". The only downside is that we would have to manually keep the TOC up-to-date (or maybe there could be a way to automate that too? But i doubt it.)

::>'' I have also done quite a lot to make a transcript with descriptions of images etc. And would hate to see that go for a table.
::Yeah that would definitely not be removed. We can either add the transcript at the bottom of the explanation or make another column, it depends on how many headers have a transcript, I haven't looked.

::>'' I certainly think the permanent header text should have their own section.
::>'' I think the permanent column is not needed
::>'' But I still think a table of the permanent should have a date, the day they first appeared. And in a table this would be useful to sort in the order they came out.
::1: Agree, 2: agree, and 3: defintely! Luckily the way you formatted the dates (YYYY-MM-DD) is already perfect for sorting, and they're already hyperlinked too!
::> ''For the not permanent I think there should also be a end date. From date and end date. Maybe a duration calculated from this.
::Yeah I had forgotten about this! The <nowiki>{{date}}</nowiki> template could look something like this:
{| class="sortable wikitable"
!Date
|-
|From [https://web.archive.org/web/20140723180600/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-07-23]<br>(during [[1398: Snake Facts]])<br>until [https://web.archive.org/web/20140901113916/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-09-01]<br>(during [[1415: Ballooning]])
|}

::> ''But if it should be sort-able, then the last column with purpose, could just be a single word, so you can sort on Store, Promotion, etc. Then it would only take up one short column.
::Yeah you're right, I think we might end up going for this. As you said, we should give the explanation enough space.

::> ''But if you manage to do it in a smooth way that do not loose all the information I have gathered and the transcripts I have made, then go for it.
::Thank you! As I said previously, I wanted to shift the focus from removing the bullet points to reorganising the info and leaving the existing te there for now:
:::''"If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and to sort, I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former."''

::So i guess this is the new proposed design?

:::::: '''Comic-specific''': ''(updated by FaviFake on 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC) with suggestion from Kynde below)''

{| class="sortable wikitable"
! scope="col" data-sort-type="number" |Date & Comic
! scope="col" data-sort-type="text" |Header text
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Explanation
!Purpose
|-
|[https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]
[[472: House of Pancakes]]
{{xkcd|472|''(View the header text on xkcd.com)''}}
|<span style="font-variant: small-caps; font-weight: 500; font-size: 16px; width: 760px; line-height: 150%;" class="plainlinks">(Today's comic is a parody of '''[https://www.amazon.com/House-Leaves-Mark-Z-Danielewski/dp/0375703764 House of Leaves]'''.)</span>
|This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.
|style="background-color: #aa55a5;" | Credits
|}

:::::: '''Global headers''': ''(updated by FaviFake on 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC) with suggestion from Kynde below)''

{| class="sortable wikitable"
! Date & Comic
! scope="col" data-sort-type="text" |Header text
! scope="col" class="unsortable" |Explanation
! scope="col" data-sort-type="number" | Purpose
|-
|From [https://web.archive.org/web/20140723180600/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-07-23]<br>{{nowrap|(during [[1398: Snake Facts]])}}<br>until [https://web.archive.org/web/20140901113916/https://xkcd.com/ 2014-09-01]<br>(during [[1415: Ballooning]])
|<span style="font-variant: small-caps; font-weight: 500; font-size: 16px; width: 760px; line-height: 150%;" class="plainlinks">Hey all, the new tshirts at the example [[Store|xkcd store]] are now available!</span>
|This comic's header notes its status as a parody. Only on the days this comic was the newest was this header featured on the front page of xkcd for instance as seen here the day after release on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06]. But it was only on this comic. The commercial for his new t-shirt was on all the other pages, also on [https://web.archive.org/web/20080906103932/http://www.xkcd.com/ 2008-09-06] and presumably returned to the front page with the next comic. But there is a gap in the archive after this comic.
|style="background-color: #ccffcc;" |Store promotion
|}

::We could add a number column to show how many times it has changed?--[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:07, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::I reply here to the above. It is very difficult to find out what I was replying to if I put it in ath the end. The next message and many below written before this:
:::I like the idea from you table. But you missed the release date on the permanent. Still think that is important. 
:::I was also thinking of two columns for start and end, but your idea my be fine. Could it be easy to add the number of days the header have been up then?
:::What will the number represent? We do not have the first, and we do not have the last... Unless it is automatic numbering, so the newest is number 1 and the rest gets higher automatic, like in a bullet list, I think it will make no sense?
:::My input to the above --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 20:27, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::::Don't worry, this page is already a mess. Yes, I forgot the release date! I guess we'll put it above the comic in the column "Comic", since the order is the same if we sort by date or by comic number. I also thought about two columns for start and end, but I figured it wouldn't really make sense because the sorting would be the same. Plus, by using just one column we save horizontal space! We can definitely add the duration, that'll be another parameter in the template.
::::Yeah you have a good point, the number column wouldn't make sense. I removed it. But we might need another column: where do we put the current heading that appear in the TOC? Should we add another column? If so, where would we put that column? I hadn't thought about this. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 21:54, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
:::::Not always the same with number vs date, as at least one of the comics did not get the permanent text when released. But it may not be that important. 
:::::Yes what to do for the heading I have given the different headers...? The number you suggested may not have worked, but in the header bullet lidt it is nice to be able to see there are 110 (3 of which are placeholders, so 107 changes documented) and also the number of permanent individial headers. (23). That info would be lost in a table. I think it is not possible to move into a table without loosing info. Also it will be much more difficult to add new info, as you have to edit the whole table, rater than now, just the post above or below the one you wish to enter a new header. It would be a massive page to edit. I know it is nice to be able to sort, but it will be difficult or even impossible for someone to add new thing to it... --[[User:Kynde|Kynde]] ([[User talk:Kynde|talk]]) 16:53, 26 April 2025 (UTC)

::::::Yes, as I said we would have to update the TOC manually, but it would still be these in some form. We would simply use # to create a numbered list, which would keep the number of total headers. So it wouldn't be lost. Also, editing the table wouldn't be that difficult in my opinion, you'd just have to fill the templates, something like this:

 ! Special 10th anniversary edition of WHAT IF? - preorder
 
 | <nowiki>{{Date| 2024-05-15 | 2933: Elementary Physics Paths | 2024-10-15 | 2998: Ravioli-Shaped Objects}}</nowiki>
 
 | {{Header text| Special 10th anniversary edition of WHAT IF?—revised and annotated with brand-new illustrations and answers to important questions. Preorder now!
 
 | The first link goes to the page for the what if? book on xkcd and the other link is to the HarperCollins page for the 10th anniversary edition of the book, rest of the explanation... 
 
 |<nowiki> {{What If promotion}}</nowiki>

::::::Also, I just realised we could just put the title you gave in the very first column, before the date! --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 10:20, 27 April 2025 (UTC)

::You do have a good point there. Actually, all of these are good points. Maybe we could take out the 'timeframe' column for the CS table and replace it with 'start and end date' for the GL table. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]]<sup>[[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]]<sup>[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices]</sup></sup> 13:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::Not that I'm taking any part in this conversion (excelt for giving ideas, when they occur to me), but how about: Table has one (small) column contents act as an #anchor-link to the appropriate extended header-defined information below. The beauty (YMMV) of the tabular/sortable overview being developed whilst retaining the table-incompatible "long descriptive" bits (perhaps with a similar back-anchor to the table-rows so that a minimal amount of table-worthy detail need be included in the long-header.
::And though that ''could'' be done with "<sup>[a]</sup>, <sup>[b]</sup>, <sup>[c]</sup>" or "<sup>[n1]</sup>, <sup>[n2]</sup>, <sup>[n3]</sup>" inbuilt wiki-references, I think maybe just plain <code><nowiki>[[#itemFoo|Foo]]</nowiki></code> sort of thing for the Comic or Purpose cell contents. If that works well within a collapsing text area, that might make it available (but not obtrusive to the casual view). Or perhaps send it to a <code>Header text/fuller descriptions]]</code>-ish new sub-page.
::This ''does'' mean a bit more to remember if updating with new instances (add 'line' to table ''and'' add at least a placeholder into the headered paragraphs, not just one or the other) but that much might be made more obvious as a reminder (to those who 'know') or a guide (to newer editors) by a commented out row+paragraph template at the end of each.
::Or is it unfair of me to complicate things further by essentially suggesting both approaches to be carried forward..? [[Special:Contributions/172.70.85.186|172.70.85.186]] 14:01, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:::Sorry but I didn't understand any of that. What are you suggesting? For the missing TOC problem, I thought we would solve it by using a template to create an HTML anchor, and then manually creating the TOC. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 14:11, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::::Do you need it explained longer, or shorter..?
::::Trying (mostly) shorter: Retain "TOC"ed version (additional: though not ''necessarily'' still TOCed, could be redone as ";"ed, instead of "==...=="ed — we don't need any TOC list, 'cos the table will do that), but without most of the repeating short info you're putting into the table. Don't have huge "Details" column, just bare bones. But #anchor-link each entry to the longer-form original sections in their more prosaic forms. So you've a table that's not too busy, but all the hard-won case study info is also elsewhere, just not clogging up the table itself.
::::The rest of what I said was a lot of optional mini-variations of this general idea. Because TIMTOWTDI. [[Special:Contributions/141.101.98.34|141.101.98.34]] 16:32, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

::::: Now I understand! Usually a good way to read your comments is to just mentally remove all parenthesis, but it didn't work this time. I don't really think the text is so much that we have to link to it? The example above is the average length (is much shorter when you remove the bullet points), and it doesn't seem to take up much space.

::::: Sounds pretty good! I'm just going to continue getting more texts summarized and ported over to the sandbox, because I have no idea how to use wikitext more advanced than tables and <nowiki><nowiki></nowiki> and <nowiki><sup></nowiki>. I am trying to learn <nowiki><span></nowiki> though. --[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |DollarStoreBa'al]]<sup>[[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al | Converse]]<sup>[https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Special:Contributions/DollarStoreBa%27al My life choices]</sup></sup> 17:23, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

:::::: Wait, I thought we were ''not'' doing that? I wrote the message below and I thought you agreed, but I must've misread your response. Here's the relevant part:
::::::: ''"I'm however more and more concerned with the amout of time it would take to rewrite EVERYTHING. If the main goal is to make this easy to visualise and read (and to sort, as a bonus), I think the best way to do it would be to fill these columns with the info, and keep the original text that Kynde wrote. We could simply erase all bullet points automatically and make it look like a normal paragraph, even if it isn't coherent. We will worry about that later, if we even manage to do the former."
::::::In short, I think we would make the page much more useful if, instead of using grammatically correct sentences, we simply reorganised it and chenged how it looks. I think this is a huge enough task already, and I think it would benefit the wiki more than rewriting everything. Thoughts? --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:43, 25 April 2025 (UTC)
::::::To be clear, I already have a perfectly good way of removing all bullet points in less than a minute. The downside is, of course, that the paragraphs would be impossible to read: not because the sentences aren't coherent but because they're not organised. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 18:45, 25 April 2025 (UTC)

{{Outdent|:::::::}}

{{Header text|I've created a template that makes any text look like a header text, to kickstart the project. It's called {{tl|Header text}}. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 15:45, 28 April 2025 (UTC)}}
:I shall unleash my american-ness on your incomprehensible British intellect to say: HELL YEAH, BROTHER!!!!!!! --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |<span style="font-family:Atomic Age;font-size:16pt;color:red;">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al |'''''Converse''''']]</sup>[[DSBContribs |'''''My life choices''''']] 19:40, 30 April 2025 (UTC)
::Also, yeah you're right. Maybe you could take out all the bullets and I can make them more coherent and add them. But why are we keeping the text Kynde wrote? Isn't the entire point of this project to replace that with something more coherent? --'''''[[User:DollarStoreBa'al |<span style="font-family:Atomic Age;font-size:16pt;color:red;">DollarStoreBa'al</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:DollarStoreBa'al |'''''Converse''''']]</sup>[[DSBContribs |'''''My life choices''''']] 19:44, 30 April 2025 (UTC)

:::(Kindly change your signature to comply with {{w|WP:SIGAPP}}.) That was the initial goal, yes, but I believe our efforts would benefit the wiki much more if we made it easy to browse the page. And, in a sense, we would still edit her messages, by moving the date, comic, and HT text to different columns. I just think it's much easier than rewriting everything: what's the point of making every sentence follow grammatical rules if reading the page is as uninteresting as it is now? As I said previously, we could try to pursue the initial goal after the page is tuned into a table, if we still have the strength to keep going.

:::The reason I haven't yet removed every bullet is because they're needed to understand what is the {{Header text|actual header text}} and what is the explanation for said HT. My plan is that, once a HT explanation is inserted into the table, then I'll remove the bullet points because they'll no longer be needed. --[[User:FaviFake|FaviFake]] ([[User talk:FaviFake|talk]]) 12:57, 1 May 2025 (UTC)