3067: SawStart
| SawStart |
 Title text: Unfortunately, SawStart is one-use-only. Once started, the blade cannot be stopped, and must be replaced with a fresh blade while the running one is carefully disposed of. |
Explanation[edit]
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This explanation is incomplete: Language is too informal. If you can fix this issue, edit the page! |
Here, Black Hat takes the notion of a product designed to increase safety, and changes the design to do the opposite, making it much more dangerous. Like the SawStop design, his product ostensibly detects contact with skin and reacts within milliseconds, but rather than stopping the blade, his product uses an explosive charge to start a stationary blade. Simply turning a stationary blade on in the event of contact would be bad enough, but the explosive device implies very rapid acceleration, and might work even if the tool is turned off and unplugged (usually a safe condition for working with saw blades). This 'feature' is specifically designed to run up to significantly damaging speeds the moment it is touched, likely causing severe injury. There is no benefit to such a system, and it exists solely to be malicious, which is likely why it's "less popular."
This product is highly inefficient and unsafe, given the inherent danger of a rapidly accelerating saw blade. However, another possibly more important issue exists with this product: cost. SawStart is likely priced similarly to SawStop (around $1200 as of the time of writing), and may be used weekly or even daily. The net cost would be $62 400 for the saws alone, and around $187 200 in hospital bills, assuming the user resides in New York and is using SawStart weekly.
Using explosives to start a mechanism has been implemented in older piston-engined aircraft as well as in tractors. This method was preferred in times when speed is a priority in starting a rotary mechanism, especially when electric starters were not an option. This has led to its use in the B-52 bomber nowadays.
The title text refers to the fact that the braking feature on the SawStop is single use. Because of the very fast response time, both the braking cartridge and the saw blade will be badly damaged in the process, and both will need to be replaced (this being considered preferable to the kinds of permanent injuries that can result from a spinning blade). The SawStart is also single use, but in its case, it somehow makes the blade impossible to stop, violating the second law of thermodynamics (and probably several other laws); perhaps SawStart is a partnership between Black Hat and Beret Guy's business.. Hence, the SawStart blade must also be replaced and disposed of, but this apparently has to be done while the blade is spinning. To attempt to remove a spinning blade is incredibly dangerous, and this simply adds to the unnecessary harm this product could do. Disposal would also be complicated, because the still-spinning blade could cause damage to whatever is chosen to contain it.
A similar attempt at taking a safety feature and flipping it on its head was done in 2876: Range Safety, this time with the range safety officer being accompanied by a range danger officer.
Transcript[edit]
- [A table with a table saw stands behind Black Hat who gestures to the table while facing Megan and Cueball. There is a label on the side of the table, a logo of a circular saw blade, with the first part of a word inside the blade:]
- SawStart
- Black Hat: When the saw detects contact with skin, an explosive charge starts the blade spinning at full speed within a few milliseconds.
- [Caption below the panel:]
- SawStop's less-popular competitor
Trivia[edit]
In theory, such a system could be useful on a futuristic mechanized melee weapon (like "chainswords" from Warhammer 40,000). In that case, the saw would start spinning as soon as it hits the enemy, removing the need to allow time for it to spin up. On top of that, the saw is impossible to stop, and will continue to rip and shred any enemies in contact until the saw breaks. Such a combat disk saw may need to be redesigned so that it is activated by armor and flesh alike.
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- SawStop is for rotating blades, like you would use for sawing wood. I'm sure there's a good reason why they don't use vibrating blades there, the most likely is "wood is harder than a plaster cast". I could also imagine that vibrating blades don't create nice cuts, which doesn't matter with a plaster cast that will be disposed of, but very much matters with wood used for construction. --Coconut Galaxy (talk) 13:16, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Oscillating saws for cutting wood exist, and you could use one to make a long cut, but traditional circular saws are much faster and make straighter cuts. 172.68.234.66 20:55, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
empty explanation is freaky woah 172.69.194.204 12:42, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- Every explanation is empty, at least for a short amount of time. And this is not the earliest that a comic went up (shortly after midday, UK time, when it's not unknown for them to not arrive until after the midnight at the end of the designated publication day), but it looks like you (both, including first-poster at the top) have had the good luck/fortune to be just casually checking for new changes to old articles on the site and instead get 'first look' at the newest addition to it. Of course, it'll be a few hours before most of the article gets fine-tuned into some form of 'completion'. 172.70.86.157 13:23, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
sudo systemctl stop saw-start.service 172.69.208.132 13:11, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- yay you saved the world! --hi (talk) 14:08, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- "Failed to stop saw-start.service: Access restricted by systemd security policies"
- sudo holding-in-the-power-button doesn't work either.172.69.34.139 17:26, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
I'm 99% sure that the system is designed to start a stopped blade up to full speed within milliseconds, not just increase the speed of a spinning blade. --Coconut Galaxy (talk) 13:22, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
WAITER, WAITER, MORE Black Hat PLEASE Caliban (talk) 13:31, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
Because of gyroscopic precession, a still spinning (unstoppable?) blade, removed from its axle and housing, would be /very/ difficult and dangerous to dispose of. I'm a woodworker and I think I'll be having nightmares tonight. -DW 172.69.23.176 13:36, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
- At least if it's unstoppable we can use it as a free source of energy! 172.69.195.62 14:01, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
As a woodworker, one note I would like to make is that while the sawblade can be damaged by cartridge activation, it is not required that it be replaced. It is possible to have the blade inspected and potentially repaired and continue to use it. That is addressed in SawStop's FAQ https://www.sawstop.com/sawstop_faq/can-the-blade-be-reused-if-the-safety-system-brake-is-activated/ 172.69.33.189 15:04, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
The [citation needed] for violating other laws probably means that law enforcement should issue a citation to the manufacturer. Barmar (talk) 15:21, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
General observation from a s/w test engineer/woodworker: Original version of the Sawstop used a shotgun shell to fire a stopper into the sawblade which absolutely did destroy the blade. (and made enough noise to pretty much ensure a 'code brown' if you triggered the stop system.) Newer version uses a high tension spring along with a deformable aluminum stopper assembly to absorb the energy and bring the blade to a stop. The advantage of the deformable aluminum assembly is that you can remove it from the blade (with care) and as noted can put the sawblade back to work. However you need a new ($200-ish) stopper assembly before you can re-start the saw. Having a family member who is a retired emergency room doctor who would regularly email me 'stories from work' of woodworker injuries who came through her ER, I can assure you that a tablesaw is pretty much the most dangerous woodworking tool in a typical woodshop. That being said, its quite amusing to me that "SawStop" became XKCD worthy. SawStop is somewhat notorious in the woodworking community because of their highly obnoxious business practices with regards patent and legal attacks on business competitors who came up with alternative approaches to the 'saw brake' or 'saw safety' system. JC from Canada 172.69.33.194 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
- Funny, the version I'd heard from the woodworking community was SawStop getting vast pushback from their competitors who didn't want to licence the first saw safety systems, and then spent a vast amount of money making their own inferior systems when Sawstop pushed for tablesaws to have to have some sort of safety system. But I suppose it's all a matter of which set of propaganda from the businesses you're buying into. 172.69.195.180 11:18, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
- The full story is a bit of both. The inventor didn't want to be a table saw company, so he initially tried to license it to existing companies, and only founded SawStop after getting rejected everywhere. Later, Bosch made a similar but distinct system and SawStop sued to keep it from reaching market. Finally, SawStop tried to get the US gov't to make skin-sensing tech mandatory on all table saws, and talked about how they are just trying to be safe, while simultaneously filing a lawsuit against Felder for their newer technology. A lot of people in the community viewed that as hypocritical as they seem to want safety, but only if they are the ones to profit from it. 172.70.94.34 20:55, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
Funnily enough this could be practical in robot combat 104.23.190.1515:01, 24 March 2025 EST
Note that since the blade is spun up using explosives and not the electric motor (even ignoring the title text), the saw being unplugged in no way makes the blade safe to touch. 172.68.23.226 20:03, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
The explosive charge would already be deadly. --[insert signature here] (talk) 00:31, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
Why is it important to include the fact that this could be used in robot warfare? Ozymandias (talk)
- As far as I can tell, this fact has not been included. Nor was it ever there in the last handful of edits (or in what I knew was there beforehand).
- There is something about Warhammer 40K (which I appreciate the meaning of, but find a little out of the blue as currently written). Maybe you mean that. It could be rewritten as a "in a circumstance such as the world of Warhammer 40K", I suppose. Though why single that out? For reference, though, in case you want to change things: https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Chainsword 172.69.43.240 11:45, 25 March 2025 (UTC)
wonder if the comic is referring to the (somewhat popular) whatisthisrock subreddit --172.68.210.176 19:29, 27 March 2025 (UTC) ignore the above since it was referring to another comic --172.68.210.176 19:33, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
In any case, SawStart sounded like an excellent project idea for the Youtuber Stuff Made Here. --162.158.168.133 19:42, 27 March 2025 (UTC)
The comic file isn’t 2x, despite one being available at [1]. Can someone with autoconfirmed rights update the file? 172.71.154.247 04:48, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
Old joke: In court ...
Judge: "Witness, you as the mother of the child must know who is the father."
Female Witness: "Your honor, when you get your finger in a running circular saw, do you know which tooth it was?"
162.158.155.129 14:31, 30 March 2025 (UTC)
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![[1]](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/sawstart_2x.png){kind=link}