Talk:1610: Fire Ants
misinterpreting a question as an invitation to talk about one's pet obsession is symptomatic of autistic spectrum disorder. although not necessarily so. as, i suppose, is wanting to do science in academe. --184.108.40.206 13:12, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
i don't think she was misinterpreting the question,she probably is so obsessed about ants that she tries to talk about them every chance she gets. 220.127.116.11 (talk) (please sign your comments with ~~~~)
- ok, so "misinterpreting" was a poor choice. try "interpreting, wrongly". and only autists feel like that. to a neuro-typical this isn't even an issue. --18.104.22.168 12:57, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Theoretically, there's a hidden analogy in that a colony of rather simplistic and specialist individuals can ensure their own survival in the face of adverse environmental conditions by keeping themselves all in one location so that they can continue to perpetuate themselves in the future. And as it is with those heading off to Grad School, so it may also be with ants. 22.214.171.124 13:29, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
I've just joined, so please forgive the new boy. Perhaps the joke is really to do with biblical references and metaphors, as I have suggested in my contribution to the main article. (User:Paw 42)
- Ooh, scary threat. The biblical reference is completely justified. 126.96.36.199 22:59, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Really?? Life of Brian is the most popular? Sorry, that's either crazy inaccurate or needs a citation. I'm pretty confident the Biblical reference was more accurate as a phase origin, though I can't say I feel it adds much to the explanation. Google likes "Consider the lobster" and "Consider the source" better than either when I search for it. When I search for it adding the keyword "phrase," it gives the Biblical reference, but still not as a first result. The Life of Brian doesn't show up in any front page results. Ancientt (talk) 15:13, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
During an initial read through I assumed that he was speaking to a career adviser. Thus, the "consider the fire ant" statement was a take off from the Biblical "consider the ant" statement found in Proverbs 6:6-8. For those who don't know, that particular Proverb is a reprimand to lazy people to consider the diligence and foresight of ants who prepare for the future without being told to do so. Where, lazy people typically have to be micro-managed to get any results from them. So, you assume that hair bun girl is calling cueball lazy because he is rethinking grad school (in this view he is sacrificing diligence and future planning for the now). However, she takes the statement in such a radical direction it loses this meaning - it becomes a rant about how cool fire ants are. Which seems odd until you read the title text and you discover he is in the entomology department (study of insects). Unless cueball regularly visits the entomology department for career advice you can assume that his grad school is about the study of insects. Thus in conclusion, her weird rant about ants really IS meant as a parallel to Proverbs; however, instead of contrasting his behavior to that of ants she is encouraging him to continue his study of insects because of how cool they are. Thus, the joke of using the statement "consider the ant" as a means to get someone to live more responsibly is still being used exactly for that purpose. That's my understanding of it.--R0hrshach (talk) 17:06, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- I like this explanation much better. And even if you use Life of Brian this is still a reference to the bible (as the whole film spoofs Jesus). Hope someone will change to incorporate these bible verses. I do not know them so will stay out of this ;-) --Kynde (talk) 20:17, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- I added the above explanation as alternate because I wasn't sure how to mix in elements of the existing explanation. The quotes from the book of Matthew referenced by Life of Brian may have used the same "consider the" format but it is clear to me by Randall's use of fire ants and the situational context of the joke that he was referencing Proverbs. So I didn't find the Life of Brian reference to have any meaning to the explanation.--R0hrshach (talk) 18:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- It's just a really, really minor point (and not germane to anything - but I do feel quite strongly about it) The Life of Brian does not "spoof Jesus" it spoofs the attitudes and behaviours of the people surrounding Jesus.188.8.131.52 09:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Here's my interpretation. I don't think hair bun girl is making an analogy whatsoever. She is simply expressing her obsession/love of ants. By doing so in response to cue ball's plea for advice, she illustrates (knowingly or unknowingly) why she herself attended grad school (I'm assuming she is a professor of entomology - which I think is reasonable given her comment and the title text). She is so obsessed with ants that she attended grad school (a very large undertaking) in order to study them further. Then she proceeded to pursue a career in Academia to continue to study ants. To her, the very idea of having second thoughts of pursuing graduate school to further her studies is probably ridiculous. She probably never had them. Hence she demonstrates all that she needed to know to pursue graduate school - she is big on ants. A little background on me since it informs my interpretation: I spent a lot of time trying to answer this question for myself: "Should I pursue graduate school?" I saw a common thread amongst my professors, leading graduate students, etc. They all wanted nothing more than to learn more about their field of study. The very fact that I was having doubts ended up being a sign to myself that I did not really want to go to graduate school to study, I wanted to go for other reasons that would have made grad school unfulfilling. Supersixfour (talk) 20:27, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
- I tried to incorporate your thoughts into the alternate explanation as her reason for launching into the cool fact about fire ants. That is to persuade him that the study of insects is really cool and worthwhile. We never learn Cueball's motivation and whether her enthusiasm won him over or made him realize he wasn't committed enough to that field or level of study. The joke seems to have little to actually do with grad school and more to do with how we give advice or attempt to motivate others through difficult tasks.--R0hrshach (talk) 18:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- I'm not sure he would find any more answers to his question in the etymology department than he did in entomology. It would make for a different twist on the same joke though! Probably have less cool information about fire ants though.--R0hrshach (talk) 18:00, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
As someone who has been fascinated by ants my entire life (60+ years) I totally get Hair Bun Girl's enthusiasm. My family treats me the same way when I get on my favorite topic (as I often do and they they always have). Ants are super cool - they've the unofficial mascot for the ALife community, and arguably the most studied insect in most entomology departments. Ed Wilson is one of my heroes (he was the first to form the hypothesis that ants communicate using chemical signals), not only for his work on ants but his impact on all of natural science, and his sincere concern for the future of our world and all the creatures in it. I was excited and happy to see xkcd referring to ants in both the Hoverboard game and the 11/30/15 comic (as well as #638 The Search). From the perspective of a life-long myrmecophile I don't think there's anything complex behind HBG's responses except one I heartily endorse: "Because ANTS!" (maybe I'm on the spectrum, too.) As for the biblical reference, I don't specifically think of it as a "biblical" reference except in as much as it seems to refer to an oft-quoted phrase in the book. Most entomologists and myrmecologists know it well: "Go to the ant, thou sluggard! Consider her ways and be wise..." (probably referring to a species of Harvester ants that gathers and stores grain). One reason they love it is that it correctly identifies the ones doing the work as female. Personally I think the bible is hilarious (full disclosure - not a believer). I love pointing out (especially to Christians) that there are not 10 but 600 to 1,000 commandments in the bible (depending on your version, affiliation, definition, etc.) including a prohibition against eating hoopoes (a colorful woodpecker-like bird in Afro-Eurasia that eats ants). Finally I would say that there are a large number of more interesting facts about ants that might be used. These could include suicide bombers who blow themselves up to harm enemies, turtle ants with plug-shaped heads to seal nest entrances, honey-pot ants who gorge on food and become living storage vessels to feed the colony - nearly endless fascinating adaptations (see some here). I also take exception to the comment that the queen controls all the other ants. In reality, ants perform different functions depending on caste, age, etc. The queen produces eggs and receives food and chemical feedback about the colony's health and requirements, and adjusts her production of quantity and type of eggs (castes, etc.) as a result of this feedback. She's basically an egg-laying machine enslaved by the colony. And now I'm at risk of someone saying, "Wait, what lesson am I supposed to take from that?" So go to the AntWiki thou sluggard; consider its ways and be wise. Usagi (talk) 19:56, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
- Fascinating. You are correct about the larger number of commandments in the Bible (greater than ten); however, they can all be understood with just two. Full disclosure, I am a believer. If you want to talk about it (friendly-like) you can always give me a chat. :) --R0hrshach (talk) 21:30, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Could the lesson be "if you're struggling, ask your classmates for help"? 184.108.40.206 15:40, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
At my university, the adviser assigned to me is in the physics department. My friend is in information sciences, and his adviser is in the computer science department. Is this uncommon? The explanation currently seems to suggest that the person Cueball is speaking to wouldn't be an adviser by virtue of what department they are in. 220.127.116.11 01:05, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
Replace the adviser's dialogue with this:
Consider the supernova. One strong enough to create a black hole momentarily creates so much energy, only the Big Bang was more powerful.
SPACE IS SO COOL.
Here in the astronomy department, 1) we're big on space, and 2) We don't remember your question because we were thinking about space.
Contrary to this change, my assumption was always that this person was an Educator of some kind that Cueball was asking aevice of. Either:
- a pre-Grad School trusted tutor (sorry, not sure how the US education system works, exactly, High School is it?) such as a favoured teacher who was finally taking the opportunity to make a pointed pointer towards her pet interest she has until now held back from overtly promoting, or
- more likely, a Grad-School teacher/administrator there during Freshers' Wekk to resolve newly-enrolled students's last minute issues. Her 'day job' is of course in the department that she is passionate about.
...but that's just my (original) first reading of the comic. Translating the experience back to a UKcentric scenario. 18.104.22.168 18:42, 7 January 2022 (UTC)